The Remarkable Leadership Podcast

00:00:08:11 - 00:00:44:01
Kevin Eikenberry
Normally I'm doing the interviewing, but today the roles are reversed. I'm answering questions that have been asked of me and by those that are with us, live asking well, live. So now you get the chance to watch Kevin work without a net. As people ask Kevin anything. Welcome to a very special end of the year episode of the Remarkable Leadership Podcast, where we are helping leaders grow personally and professionally to lead more effectively and make a bigger difference for their teams, organizations and the world.

00:00:44:03 - 00:01:06:20
Kevin Eikenberry
If you are listening to this on the podcast at the end of 2024, in 2025, you could watch us join us live for episodes and you can learn how to do that when they're coming up and get a little inside baseball about the show as well, by going to either our Facebook or LinkedIn groups. Just two of the platforms where we host our live streams.

00:01:06:22 - 00:01:33:22
Kevin Eikenberry
And so you can go to remarkable podcast.com/facebook or remarkable podcast.com/linkedin to learn all about that. Find out when we're live. And joining us then, today's episode is brought to you by my newest book, Flexible Leadership. Navigate Uncertainty and Lead with confidence. It's time to realize that styles can get in our way, and that following our strengths might not always be the best approach in a world that's more complex and uncertain than ever.

00:01:34:03 - 00:01:57:16
Kevin Eikenberry
Leaders need a new perspective and a new set of tools to create great results for their organizations and team members. That's what. That's what flexible leadership provides you. And so I hope that you will go learn more and preorder your copy now at remarkable podcast.com/flexible. And so now not on camera as I just said not on camera but nearby over my shoulder.

00:01:57:18 - 00:02:25:11
Kevin Eikenberry
Is Lisa Ritter McMahon and Lisa is the producer of this show, which means that she helps to book guests and work with guests and make sure everything works smoothly, and does a bunch of the stuff that you see in the, in the show notes every week. So she's joining us today. And so we've got people, Lisa, we got people from Oregon so far and California so far and Texas so far.

00:02:25:17 - 00:02:39:22
Kevin Eikenberry
And so I'm sure there are others. Here's what I want. You all that are online to do is ask your questions. Lisa has questions, but yours are going to get priority. At least six other. At least there's a few. Well, there's a few that she needs to ask, because we know that they've come from folks who just weren't going to be here live.

00:02:40:02 - 00:02:59:12
Kevin Eikenberry
So, we tested this, and we hope that she can be heard over my shoulder here. And so I'm going to let you go, Lisa, and ask. And I just like those of you that are, watching and listening, if you can't hear her very well, say so, and then I'll have her talk louder. Lisa, what do you got for me?

00:02:59:13 - 00:03:14:12
Lisa Ritter-McMahan
Okay, let's get this thing started. First thing, on the soft skills side of the equation, what one new skill will leaders need to be effective and successful when dealing with people?

00:03:14:14 - 00:03:31:08
Kevin Eikenberry
Well, here's the thing. Soft skills. I mean, you could argue that pretty much everything that we talk about, about leadership is soft skills. I would like to call them human. I'm going to keep looking at Lisa that I probably shouldn't. I should be focused on all of you. But it's very weird to have someone in the room and not be looking at her.

00:03:31:10 - 00:03:56:18
Kevin Eikenberry
Which is a soft skill, by the way, to actually look at the people you're talking to. But in all seriousness, we talk about soft skills, and I appreciate that question. I like to think of them more as human skills than soft skills. And I do think there's one that's more important now than ever. And I hinted at it in the intro for my new when I mentioned the new book, Flexible Leadership.

00:03:56:20 - 00:04:17:21
Kevin Eikenberry
I think the soft skill that we have to continue to get better at is the skill of adaptability and the skill of recognizing that we live in a both and world and not an either or world. And so often we want to say, here's the answer. Here's the answer that works. Here's the answer I know. Here's the right answer, but rather we need to be looking for best answers.

00:04:18:02 - 00:04:44:08
Kevin Eikenberry
Context is always changing with our folks and with the organization and with the world, and so thinking about that, I think, is is critical. So the skill Lisa and Paul, who asks the question, is, I think, the skill that leaders need to become even more adept at, maybe even become aware of is being adaptable and switching to, based on the context and what our intention that we're trying to accomplish is?

00:04:44:13 - 00:05:04:01
Kevin Eikenberry
And then flexing our approach based on that, rather than being, so focused on what we think our strengths are or what our style is and that sort of thing. And Lisa, they say that they can hear you, that you sound good. So, we got folks now from Indianapolis and Seattle. It has been a while. And another person coming in from California, we've got someone in our neighborhood.

00:05:04:01 - 00:05:21:20
Kevin Eikenberry
Lisa. So, anyway, give us another while. We're waiting for all of you online. And when we say ask Kevin anything, I think it's anything. It's anything, it's anything. So, while we're waiting for you all to decide what you're going to ask Lisa, give me another one.

00:05:21:22 - 00:05:40:21
Lisa Ritter-McMahan
Okay, so talking about leadership, and we know that the people that join us to listen, to ask their questions are at various stages of leadership. Here's one. How do I transition from being a peer to being a leader without damaging relationships?

00:05:40:23 - 00:06:15:11
Kevin Eikenberry
It's a really good question. And some of you know that that, I co-wrote a book with guy here on On This that relates to this topic, the idea of moving from bad to boss and the relationship component of that is a huge part of it. Right? So, I think the biggest thing in the side of that question, Lisa, is that to recognize that the relationships that exist, we want them to continue and we want them to continue, not just because as a individual, I don't want to lose that person that I have a relationship with, but I can't lose them as the leader either.

00:06:15:11 - 00:06:35:10
Kevin Eikenberry
And so I think part of the answer is in the question, in that you don't want to you don't want to lose those. You want to keep those intact, even though they might have to change. Because the reality is that once you're the boss, people are going to look at you differently, even if they've known you for a long time.

00:06:35:10 - 00:06:56:01
Kevin Eikenberry
And even if you don't necessarily think you want them to look at you differently, they will. So I think the key is recognize that the relationship matters. Work to maintain it, but have a conversation with those folks about how does it need to look, or in what ways does it need to look differently now? And I think that's a really, really important piece of the puzzle.

00:06:56:01 - 00:07:17:10
Kevin Eikenberry
We could probably spend the whole time talking about that. I know that, Lisa, you're just far enough away that you can't really read these, but we got one. Here we go. And Luciano says, do you believe that hierarchical leaders with old systems need to change in government agencies to meet new today's, needs? Well, I'm not a government expert, but I will say that I do think there are two things inside of your question.

00:07:17:12 - 00:07:39:18
Kevin Eikenberry
The first one is that the world is changing, so leaders have to be willing to adapt and be flexible. For sure. And I think that there's well, I'll put it this way. When Lisa, when Wayne and I wrote Long Distance Leader, we said that there were a bunch of rules. In fact, the book was built around the rules of long distance leadership.

00:07:39:20 - 00:08:06:23
Kevin Eikenberry
And the first one and the last one was, remember, think leadership first, location second. So I would say the same thing here. Think leadership first, context second, government second. In other words, are things changing? Yes. Do we need to take those into account? Yes. Our hierarchical, our is that focus on hierarchy changing? Yes. And do we need to take all those things into account 100%.

00:08:07:03 - 00:08:38:11
Kevin Eikenberry
But that doesn't mean we need to throw everything we know about leadership out the window, that the reality is that leadership is still leadership. Now, if we're a leader, that's been more hierarchical in approach, perhaps because that's how we were taught, perhaps that's how we got promoted ourselves as the world looks at organizational life differently and looks at organizational life less mechanically and more organically.

00:08:38:12 - 00:09:00:03
Kevin Eikenberry
I think that that does require that we have to think about that, more and new. That means, Luciano, that if that's me as that leader in a government or otherwise, that I need to be self-aware enough to know that I might need to make some adapt, do some adaptations and be more flexible. That's how I would answer that.

00:09:00:05 - 00:09:22:15
Kevin Eikenberry
Christina asked one too. So Lisa, she says, if you could only share one message or highlight from your new book with someone that doesn't know your work, what would it be? So, Christina, that's like, did I. I didn't pay you to ask that question. It's a really good question. So, so talking about flexible leadership, I would say it's this, that.

00:09:22:17 - 00:09:49:02
Kevin Eikenberry
Most of us have identified or helped to been been helped by understanding what our, quote, leadership style is or we've taken a strengths finders type of assessment and no disrespect to any style type assessment or any, personality or communication style assessment or even any strength type assessment. All of those are useful and valuable when used in the right way.

00:09:49:04 - 00:10:18:10
Kevin Eikenberry
I also believe that they have all become a damaging factor for us too, because they've moved from being a helpful model to becoming the way we identify ourselves. And so as a leader, if I now identify myself as a servant leader or a hierarchical leader or a facilitative leader or a long distance leader, whatever it is, however, I've now decided I'm going to find myself, because of the assessment that I've taken.

00:10:18:12 - 00:10:47:06
Kevin Eikenberry
I am automatically limiting myself because in a world that's continuing to change, we have to be willing to change and flex to lead in new ways based on the context where and not just based on what our personal preferences, natural tendencies or habits are. And so we have to be able to move past natural tendency styles, strengths, and routines to lead in new ways.

00:10:47:08 - 00:11:09:21
Kevin Eikenberry
And so flexible leadership is going to help people understand the intention and context around how to do that. So there you go. Christina. Thank you for setting the table with that one for me to hit a home run. I mean, maybe, you know, I'm I have a clear at bat on that one. And you're welcome. Luciano. And and Marlene in our team has put a note there if you want to learn more about my device.

00:11:09:21 - 00:11:12:23
Kevin Eikenberry
So thank you for that. Morning. What else have you got?

00:11:13:01 - 00:11:22:12
Lisa Ritter-McMahan
Staying with flexible leadership and this kind of goes a little more personally, but what excites you about your new book?

00:11:22:14 - 00:11:48:05
Kevin Eikenberry
What excites me about it? Well, I think that I will say this, I've said this several times. This first time I'm saying it like in front of a group. I believe this is this is the best work of my career. I think that, I couldn't have written this book earlier in my career. I think that what excites me about this is that I think I'm helping people see something.

00:11:48:07 - 00:12:07:11
Kevin Eikenberry
Maybe not see something new, but give people a way to apply an idea that maybe has been hard for them to deal with or struggle or they struggle with. So that's what makes me excited about it. I'm excited because I think we're really sharing something I don't know. Thousands of books on leadership have been written. And Lisa would say, well, maybe not thousands, but there's hundreds in this office.

00:12:07:13 - 00:12:28:13
Kevin Eikenberry
And I really think we're we're giving people some new thinking and some new tools, and I'm super, super excited about that. So we've got some more questions here that have come in here, Lisa. And again, since you can't see them over your shoulder, Nicola says as a young leader, I find myself as a servant leader, someone who is very empathetic towards the individual contributor on the team, specifically when they're frustrated.

00:12:28:13 - 00:12:47:12
Kevin Eikenberry
The organization as a whole. Cool. I don't want to minimize their feelings, but how do I maintain the expectation that we need to meet organizational values despite the frustration that is a fabulous question, and it's related to the idea that I can be empathetic. And yet we've still got work to accomplish, right? Which is an idea related to the idea of being a flexible leader.

00:12:47:14 - 00:13:03:20
Kevin Eikenberry
Like, I can say that I'm generally more empathetic. I'm generally want to be leaning into the needs of my team, and at some point, Lisa, my dad would have said, you have to put on your big boy pants and go to work like, so we can be frustrated. And we need to empathize with our folks when they feel that.

00:13:04:00 - 00:13:38:06
Kevin Eikenberry
And yet there's work still has to be done. And so I think that that's an example of recognizing that there's not one right answer. The right answer isn't just be empathetic or focus on the business, but the right answer is which of and how much of each do I need to be doing at any given time? And and, Nicholas, you're you've got part of your answer in your question, just like Luciano that that recognizing that difference is a critical first step and then figuring out where, where are we situationally and at what point are my folks.

00:13:38:07 - 00:14:01:10
Kevin Eikenberry
So I'll just take your specific example. People are frustrated. So here's the thing. We've all had people come into our office and they're they're frustrated, they're venting, they're complaining, whatever it is. And that's fine. And we need to hear that. And and sometimes just letting them share that is the best thing we can do for them. But if they keep coming back with the same thing over and over and over, it's not venting anymore.

00:14:01:11 - 00:14:19:15
Kevin Eikenberry
It's not just frustration anymore. Now it's complaining. There's a B-word that I don't like to use, but we could use that word. Here's the point. There's a point at which we have to say, okay, that's where we are. That's how we feel. What do we do with that now? And we have to get the work done to.

00:14:19:17 - 00:14:43:18
Kevin Eikenberry
Right. And so finding that balance and it's it's great to recognize, hey, I lean this direction more than the other way as a starting point. But I can't just stay there because the situation might say, we've got to we've got to bear down and get some work done right now, for any number of reasons, like if you're in retail right now, you know, it's about to be it's about to be a five busy, four busy weeks.

00:14:43:18 - 00:15:02:09
Kevin Eikenberry
Right. And so at some point and we have to we have to go to work and we have to help people. We have to be still be empathetic. And we have to say and and right. The work has to be done. Barbara says, what? See, I can't read these, by the way, until I make them bigger. Just so everybody knows.

00:15:02:10 - 00:15:23:12
Kevin Eikenberry
What are what are your thoughts about how much professional development should take place outside of work hours and or how much should be provided within work hours? Well, Barbara, that's a great question. I'm probably not the best person to answer that question, and here's why. It's because I have. Personally, I have a hard time separating the two personal and professional development.

00:15:23:12 - 00:15:45:05
Kevin Eikenberry
Like I have a hard time, separating those in my own head because I'm doing the work I was put on the planet to do. And so to me, they're very connected. Now, having said that, I think as leaders, we need to give people time to to get things done during the workday. That is development. That's part of the job.

00:15:45:07 - 00:16:08:11
Kevin Eikenberry
We have to help them see that, and we have to try to carve out the work so that can be a part of the job. Now, if you're in retail for the next four weeks, personal professional development may not be on the docket until after the holidays. There's this for everything. There is a season, right? So I think if you're a if you're in the United States and Europe, an accountant, and it's the end of March, the beginning of April, probably not doing a lot of professional development then.

00:16:08:13 - 00:16:44:19
Kevin Eikenberry
But what about the middle of June? Right. So like, I think that we as leaders need to help people carve out time and let them know it's okay for them to carve out time. So Lisa might have a different answer to this question, and I'll let her I'll let her rebut this if necessary. But like there have been lots of times, on our team where, we've done book clubs or we've, I've asked people read a book like, right now, I've asked everybody to read about the first third of Flexible leadership in preparation when we're all together a week now, my expectation is they can certainly read that during the workday.

00:16:44:21 - 00:17:03:11
Kevin Eikenberry
Now, this time I didn't say that, but I think I've said that often enough that that's fair. People know that that. And yet and yet I'm not opposed to like pushing that a little bit. Like if someone had a lot going on and I said, I get 70 pages I want you to do or I want you to take this workshop or whatever, like we got to figure it out.

00:17:03:13 - 00:17:22:22
Kevin Eikenberry
But generally speaking, I think it's, to our advantage as leaders to give people time and space and permission to do at least some of that, probably a balance. You know, and I think folks that are really engaged in and looking at the future of their careers are probably going to invest time beyond what you're going to give them.

00:17:22:22 - 00:17:30:02
Kevin Eikenberry
And that's awesome. But I think we want to have a balance in that. We've got another one to come in, but give me another one on your list first, Lisa.

00:17:30:07 - 00:17:48:01
Lisa Ritter-McMahan
Well, I know one of the things you mentioned quite often, and I believe it is discussed in flexible Leadership is the mindset, skill set and habits set of not only flexible leaders, but leaders. Can you let everybody know why it's important to have all three?

00:17:48:03 - 00:18:06:13
Kevin Eikenberry
Yeah. So first of all it is that is it's a framework that we used for a long time here. And it is how the, how the flexibility should work is laid out as well. Mindset, skill set, habit said. Here's the thing. Most training is designed around skill set. Here are the skills you need to be successful.

00:18:06:15 - 00:18:25:16
Kevin Eikenberry
Awesome. If our mindset or if our beliefs, or if our values or if our perspective don't align with that, we're not going to use them. Right? So if I teach you or you read a book, any book, or listen to a podcast, and they give you a technique to use and you're like, you can intellectually know how to use that technique.

00:18:25:18 - 00:18:54:21
Kevin Eikenberry
But if you don't believe it'll work in your situation, if your mindset doesn't match it, you're not gonna you're just not gonna, right? So the mindset of leadership needs to make sense and help to help our organizations reach the outcomes we want to reach. Mindset needs to match the skill set, but most of you have probably left a workshop of some sort excited, looking forward to applying the stuff that you learned.

00:18:55:03 - 00:19:13:05
Kevin Eikenberry
And so you've got the right mindset, you've got the right skill set, and then you go back to work and it's the real world. And applying these skills that sounded so interesting and so useful in training isn't is life is more money than that. And you don't have time that you thought you'd have. And so it gets harder.

00:19:13:05 - 00:19:37:07
Kevin Eikenberry
And what's intellectually make sense is hard to do in application. And so the transition from having a skill in your toolkit and being able and willing to pull it out and then try it, that's habit set, like turning it from something that I have to something that I use is a huge gap. Sometimes people call that the the knowing doing gap.

00:19:37:09 - 00:19:55:11
Kevin Eikenberry
And so to me, Lisa, all three of those are important and they have to ultimately be being alignment. We want our leaders to get to have the level of success successfully that we want them now. So that's that's saying it from the organizational perspective. We could also say it from the individual perspective, like you want to get better.

00:19:55:15 - 00:20:14:09
Kevin Eikenberry
Awesome. So like if you're here, if you're here on the listening to this on the podcast, you know what I always ask at the end? Lisa knows because she listens to every episode. Because I pay her to, but the last thing I ask everybody is now what? What are you going to do with this? That's the that's the habit set question.

00:20:14:12 - 00:20:34:19
Kevin Eikenberry
That's the application question. How am I going to use this is what's really super important. So mindset skill set habit set. We got another question from someone on LinkedIn who says more than just leaders do individual contributors and employees also need to be more flexible for organization to be successful? Where do you think this flexibility needs to start?

00:20:34:21 - 00:20:54:22
Kevin Eikenberry
Yes, yes and yes. So, you know, as human beings, we are one of the things that we're really good at is pattern recognition. We recognize this pattern. This is how it this is how it's done. So I'm going to keep doing it like that. It works. I'm going to keep doing it like that. Which is also, by the way, one of the reasons we've leaned into whatever our leadership style is, this is my style.

00:20:54:23 - 00:21:17:16
Kevin Eikenberry
This is how I lead. So I'm going to keep doing it that way. So as humans, we're really good at recognizing a pattern and then locking into that and staying there. And we have this beautiful thing called the ability to create a habit which allows us to do those things without thinking, right, subconsciously. And so what we all have to be able to do is to flex and adapt.

00:21:17:18 - 00:21:37:08
Kevin Eikenberry
Because in a world that's more complex than ever and more uncertain than ever, how can we assume that the way we've done it for the last six years or even six months, is going to work as the context changes? And so, we need to learn to be flexible with approach, even though we might be less flexible with principle.

00:21:37:08 - 00:21:57:21
Kevin Eikenberry
Right. Like there are some things that aren't going to change. Human nature isn't changing, certainly not changing at the rate that some authors want you to think. It is like human nature is human nature. Group dynamics, group dynamics. Are there some contextual things that have changed in our tweaking that a little bit? Yes. Do we need to take those things into account 100%?

00:21:57:23 - 00:22:21:19
Kevin Eikenberry
And yet not everything in the world is changing. One of the best ways for us to be better at and feel better about flexibility is to recognize that even though some things are changing, not everything is. And so recognizing what's the firm foundation, is the starting point for flexibility. So the answer to the question specifically is we need everyone to be more flexible.

00:22:21:21 - 00:22:32:21
Kevin Eikenberry
Right. And and it starts with leaders. Because if leaders aren't, almost assuredly the team won't be. So there's that. What else do you got, Lisa.

00:22:32:23 - 00:22:56:06
Lisa Ritter-McMahan
Well, this one comes to us from the remote space, and, I think it can be applicable to whether you're working with someone right next to you. It can also be applicable for the people in your household. How can I ensure clear communication and avoid misunderstandings when working remotely?

00:22:56:08 - 00:23:10:08
Kevin Eikenberry
Well, first of all, I'm thinking about the fact that you haven't been in this office. We determined for almost a year, and here you are for the first time, in a year. And yet we work together all the time, so we certainly know this. This can work. How do we. So that, how do we avoid misunderstandings?

00:23:10:08 - 00:23:14:03
Lisa Ritter-McMahan
Correct.

00:23:14:04 - 00:23:31:21
Kevin Eikenberry
Well, first of all, we're all human beings, and we are amazing and messy. So there are going to be misunderstandings because communication is hard. So I don't know if we can avoid them, but I do think we can minimize them. And I think that we can reduce the problems that they cause. And here's how I would say that.

00:23:31:21 - 00:23:57:14
Kevin Eikenberry
I think the clear expectations, right. Like the clearer the expectations upfront, the less likely they'll be miss communication misunderstandings later. So for example, with Lisa and I, we we were actually talking about some of the, the actual like in the moment work processes that we, that we do related to the show, about what happens when a guest is coming and all that stuff.

00:23:57:14 - 00:24:17:13
Kevin Eikenberry
It doesn't matter what it is for all of you. But Lisa and I were having this conversation when we were together just a few minutes before we were live as a way to. I was wanting to check if my if what I was doing was causing her a problem or causing a misinterpretation misunderstanding. And so I think we had pretty clear expectations around a lot of this work.

00:24:17:13 - 00:24:35:14
Kevin Eikenberry
And it's just checking in on those, hey, is it still working? Is it still the right thing? Is it what we need? And we determined that we're probably doing okay in that particular case. So I think it's have clear expectations and then recognize that we should always check in against them because as the world changes, as the situation changes.

00:24:35:16 - 00:24:52:22
Kevin Eikenberry
Right. So Lisa's got a son who's playing high school football. One more game, one more game and then state championship. By the way, everybody and then he'll start playing basketball. So there'll be a change in expectation about when the practices are when the stuff is. And so at some point there's that's an obvious sort of change like this is changing.

00:24:52:22 - 00:25:12:22
Kevin Eikenberry
So now we need to reset those expectations. How does that all work and what does it look like. But a lot of times in the workplace things are changing gradually. And there's not a step change like that. And so as leaders we can stay on top of that facilitating better communication. But that doesn't have to just be a leader.

00:25:12:22 - 00:25:27:23
Kevin Eikenberry
It could be at home. It also could be, yeah, it could be any of us. And like, I would really hope that anyone on our team would say we need to talk about this because this isn't quite working. Right. That doesn't mean that we also can't have time to specifically say we're going to talk about that stuff.

00:25:28:04 - 00:25:48:14
Kevin Eikenberry
So, like on our team, when we're all together in about a week, we're going to spend a couple hours just sort of talking about our processes, like where are where are they going sideways. Where could we make them better? Because we can try to keep them in working. But then sometimes you just say, let's just step back and look and say that we need we look at them a little more carefully.

00:25:48:14 - 00:25:58:01
Kevin Eikenberry
So, clear expectations that we're willing and able to continue to update. It's probably the best thing I got for that. Okay. What else have you got? Lisa?

00:25:58:01 - 00:26:26:04
Lisa Ritter-McMahan
So, this one, we're getting a little more, as you like to say, inside baseball. And, people who listen to the podcast know we have a lot of authors on the show. And therefore, you read a lot and I am surrounded by books, so I know this and I'm just wondering what your processes for reading the amount and still making sure that you're getting the information.

00:26:26:06 - 00:26:51:16
Kevin Eikenberry
Well, so I will say that generally speaking, I read a book for a podcast a little different than I'm just reading. So. So for example, okay, here's the last one right here. So this was this was Kelly McDonald last week. We did last week. And so you all can see that I've got at least little tabs here. So when I'm reading when I'm reading for the podcast I'm reading with with these little tabs with me.

00:26:51:19 - 00:27:11:07
Kevin Eikenberry
Why? Because when I read something that I think I might want to talk about specifically or that I think makes an important point, I'll put that in there as a way for me to go back when I'm writing my actual questions. Only for about a third of we actually end up using, then hopefully. Oh, there we are.

00:27:11:09 - 00:27:40:05
Kevin Eikenberry
So it's a way for me to be reading, thinking about what I'm reading for, right? So I think maybe that's that would be my single thing. Like when I'm reading, I try to be reading on purpose. Like if I'm not reading for the podcast, the purpose might be different. Like if I'm reading a book to support our sales team, then I'm reading it through the lens of how is this going to apply to us?

00:27:40:05 - 00:28:12:06
Kevin Eikenberry
Or how is that going to apply to our sales processes. As an example, if I'm reading, if I'm reading something and I read a lot of stuff in, in part of the preparation and the nurturing of what became flexible leadership, I'm reading it, looking for the connections that I can draw out of that. And so, my wife says I read really fast and I do, and in part because I try to stay really focused on what I'm trying to accomplish with whatever I'm reading.

00:28:12:09 - 00:28:31:12
Kevin Eikenberry
And everybody, if you're wondering how much fiction do you read, Kevin I would say not enough. Like I don't read very much fiction. So when you read fiction, it's different, right? And again, I don't read that much of it, in part because of this, of this thing that's called a podcast, where you're doing about 50 of those a year plus virtual con.

00:28:31:12 - 00:28:59:12
Kevin Eikenberry
So, you know, I'm probably reading 50, 60 books a year that aren't really quote for me there for the process or for our business. And that's frustrating sometimes because even though I'm reading great stuff, it isn't always the stuff that I would personally want. And Lisa and I have this conversation all the time because we get staying inside baseball, we get pitched all sorts of books, we get pitched tons of stuff, which we say that we don't even need to send that to us.

00:28:59:12 - 00:29:20:19
Kevin Eikenberry
That's not going to be a fit. I'm sure nothing wrong with the book is just not a fit for us. But then we get we get stuff and then we try to decide, okay, I'm just making this up, like, okay, here's a book on resilience. If we've done two books on resilience this year, do we really want to do another book on resilience, or do we want to do a fourth book on future work right now, or whatever it might be?

00:29:20:22 - 00:29:42:15
Kevin Eikenberry
So, sometimes I'm reading stuff and there are sometimes I'm reading stuff. And, you know, I've talked about this too, that like, some of the stuff I read for the show is harder to read for the show than others because, like, I really do want to dive into it and, and so I spend a lot of time reading it, and sometimes it's hard to tell.

00:29:42:19 - 00:30:02:22
Kevin Eikenberry
What am I going to pull out of this for the show? So it's again, I'd say the biggest thing is read it. Read with purpose, read on purpose, be the biggest thing. I don't know. We've got we've gone about 30 minutes, Lisa. And so I'm going to say to all of you online, if you've got, one more, we'll 1 or 2 more, we'll take those.

00:30:02:22 - 00:30:08:13
Kevin Eikenberry
If you don't, that's fine. Lisa still got some more. So we'll do just 1 or 2 more. How about that?

00:30:08:15 - 00:30:35:17
Lisa Ritter-McMahan
So keeping with the theme of being the end of your podcast, and in the past years we've done like countdowns of the top downloaded, what have you. And so I'm throwing this because you this isn't a reflection episode, but is there anything memorable from the guests we had in 2024? That really hits you, made you stop and think or good advice to put into practice.

00:30:35:21 - 00:30:59:03
Kevin Eikenberry
I mean, there's there's always good advice. And I'm looking over here now just to, to scan through some of these, I think in some ways, Lisa, this has been a phenomenal year on the show. We've had some really great conversations. I had, had a really good conversation with and I'm going to just pull this book out.

00:30:59:03 - 00:31:20:14
Kevin Eikenberry
It's near the top, and I'll do this because this was a different kind of episode. The book was called The Case for Good Jobs How Great Companies Bring Dignity, pay, and Meaning to Everyone's work and and when we did it and now you're you're say, Kevin, this wasn't this year. I don't know, it might be older than that.

00:31:20:16 - 00:31:42:11
Kevin Eikenberry
It's near the top of this particular stack. So but it might actually be older. But here's what I would say. It was a book that, you know, the title says what sounds really good and it doesn't sound necessarily all that different than what other stuff might be. But, they did a really great job of helping me think in the bigger picture.

00:31:42:11 - 00:32:04:11
Kevin Eikenberry
I think some of the books that I, like the most, Lisa, are the ones that, sort of make me think bigger and not just like technique. Like we get all sorts of great episodes about how to do this thing or how to do that thing and all the techniques stuff and, and and tactical stuff, which is fantastic.

00:32:04:14 - 00:32:27:01
Kevin Eikenberry
And the book from Kelly last week would absolutely be in that, in that range, just since it's around the top. But this book was one that to me, got me thinking bigger and thinking differently. I think the book I another book I did last week with Adrian Kelly, The Success Complex, and that's a book that I've already done but won't actually come out till next year.

00:32:27:03 - 00:32:50:20
Kevin Eikenberry
Was another book that got me thinking at a higher level and thinking differently. So, I don't know. I don't know how else to answer that because there's just so many really, really, great shows we've done. And I will also say this, that earlier this year, I had the chance to interview Tom Peters for the second time and and Tom is unabashedly one of my heroes.

00:32:50:20 - 00:33:10:04
Kevin Eikenberry
And, and I remember the first time I got to interview him and it was only on audio. And so this last time, which was one of the final podcasts he did before he announced his retirement, is a personal favorite for mine of mine because, it was a great conversation with Tom and, I mean, I had a great conversation with Seth Godin this year.

00:33:10:08 - 00:33:24:01
Kevin Eikenberry
I mean, I could go right on down the list. But there's there's some thoughts asking me to say, what's the best episode is like saying, like, you can go, you're going to Desert Island. You can take one, one book like.

00:33:24:03 - 00:33:30:02
Lisa Ritter-McMahan
And that was a little unfair because I didn't get any time to prepare or look back in and think about it.

00:33:30:02 - 00:33:32:06
Kevin Eikenberry
That's okay.

00:33:32:08 - 00:33:35:05
Lisa Ritter-McMahan
So moving on. What do you do for fun?

00:33:35:05 - 00:34:07:19
Kevin Eikenberry
Kevin, since I, since we ask everybody else that. Oh. That's fair. So, Lisa already knows the answer to this question, so, I love to spend time at my farm, our farm in Michigan. So that's fun for me. I collect antique tractors and and and farm toys, some of which not. The real tractors are in this room, obviously, but there are one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten farm toys in this room.

00:34:07:21 - 00:34:38:06
Kevin Eikenberry
And so that's, that's a connection to my and, but something I did yesterday is one of the things I do for fun is I like to smoke meat, I smoke I smoked turkey yesterday for Thanksgiving. And so, I don't know, I mean, I, I do love to read too. And obviously I read for work, and I read for my personal development, but I also am professional, and, but I just, I do like to read as well, and, and I guess I can't finish without saying I like to watch my pretty Boilermakers, especially basketball.

00:34:38:08 - 00:34:48:06
Lisa Ritter-McMahan
That's unfortunate, but I know we're going to get so you mentioned books and we always ask, what are you reading right now or what is something you may recommend?

00:34:48:08 - 00:35:06:09
Kevin Eikenberry
I'm reading right now, not for the show. Although if Nate Silver is listening, I'd love to have Nate on the show. I'm reading Nate Silver's book, living on the edge, which is about this thick. And if you don't know who Nick silver is, he's, he was famous for 538, which he sold to ABC.

00:35:06:09 - 00:35:37:03
Kevin Eikenberry
And and he built, he built models for sports as well as, model for predicting elections. And, I followed him in his new endeavor during the all during the election season this year. And I've been reading his book, living on the edge, which is sort of a, strange combination of learning about, playing poker, which I don't do, but it's really a book about how people think about, expected outcomes and expected value.

00:35:37:05 - 00:35:56:03
Kevin Eikenberry
It's a it's it's a book that fits. I happen to have another book sitting right here that's connected to. It's connected to this phenomenal book called Thinking in Bets by Annie Duke. There's a connection to this book. There's a connection to thinking slow and Fast by Daniel Kahneman. It's cool. That's what it's one of things I'm reading right now.

00:35:56:07 - 00:35:57:21
Kevin Eikenberry
Okay.

00:35:57:23 - 00:36:04:07
Lisa Ritter-McMahan
Well, I don't have any more questions because we're about the end of our time, and I don't know if any have come in.

00:36:04:09 - 00:36:21:21
Kevin Eikenberry
We haven't got any more coming in. So here's what we're going to do. We're going to close this out. And, I will close for all of you, like I always do, and say, now what? What's one thing that you got from this episode that you will go apply? And in this case, it might be a book that you're going to go read or show, you're going to go back to listen to.

00:36:21:23 - 00:36:40:01
Kevin Eikenberry
But maybe it's something that I said in answer to one of the questions. It was useful to you, timely for you, relevant for you. And I hope that you'll take action on that. And, I want to thank Lisa for it was basically Lisa's idea to do this episode. And I thought, it sounds like a great idea, great fun.

00:36:40:01 - 00:36:56:07
Kevin Eikenberry
Although it would be a lot more fun if I could have seen her face during the whole episode. This is not how we planned for it to go. But you know what? Sometimes in life we have to be flexible. And, and that's what we've done. And, so I want to thank Lisa for all the work all year.

00:36:56:07 - 00:37:13:02
Kevin Eikenberry
I should also thank Erica for doing all of her images. And I should thank Marissa for doing all of the other the other speaker and stuff that, that Lisa doesn't do. So, like, at the start of every one of these lives, you'll hear me say, Marissa, this is for you. So Marissa does the audio editing and the video editing and all that stuff.

00:37:13:02 - 00:37:41:06
Kevin Eikenberry
So I want to thank all of them for, for this year. And as we've continued to do the show, 470 some episodes in and, so thank you, all for being here as well. If this is your first time or your you've been here many times, I hope that if you found it useful, you'll be back for another episode, because next week we'll be back with a guest next week, for another episode of the Remarkable Leadership podcast.

00:37:41:06 - 00:37:41:18
Kevin Eikenberry
We'll see you then.