The Remarkable Leadership Podcast

00:00:08:12 - 00:00:38:02
Kevin Eikenberry
There is a time and a value in being brave and being bold in being audacious. We're talking today about what it looks like and means for us to be audacious every day, starting right now. Welcome to another episode of the Remarkable Leadership Podcast, where we are helping leaders like you grow personally and professionally to lead more effectively, make a bigger, positive difference for their teams, organizations, and the world.

00:00:38:02 - 00:00:59:03
Kevin Eikenberry
If you are listening to this podcast, you could be live in the future joining us for future episodes. Before they make it to the podcast on your social favorite social media channel, you can find out about when those are happening, who those guests are, and get some other inside scoops on occasion. By joining our LinkedIn and or Facebook groups.

00:00:59:05 - 00:01:30:08
Kevin Eikenberry
Two of the, two of the channels where we live stream these events. You can go to remarkable podcast.com/facebook or remarkable podcast dot coms, LinkedIn to join in the fun there. Today's episode is brought to you by my latest book, Flexible Leadership. Navigate uncertainty and Lead with Confidence. It's time to realize that styles can get in our way and that our following our strengths might not always be the best approach in a world more complex and uncertain than ever.

00:01:30:10 - 00:01:52:21
Kevin Eikenberry
That's right. Right. Leaders need a new perspective and a fresh set of tools to create the great results their organizations and team members need. That's what flexible leadership provides you. You can learn more and order your copy today at remarkable podcast.com/flexible. And with that I'm going to bring in my guest. She comes to us. There she is.

00:01:53:03 - 00:02:29:14
Kevin Eikenberry
I'm going to introduce her. And then we're going to dive in. Her name is Ann Marie Anderson. She is a three time Emmy Award winning broadcaster. And if you're watching, you can see those beautiful statuettes behind her. She's a keynote speaker and author of the book Cultivating Audacity, Dismantle Doubt and Let Yourself Win. She. As she walked through ESPN doors fresh out of college, she embarked on a career that led her into the boardrooms and locker rooms of some of the most successful franchises in sports, utilizing methods observed through behind closed doors coverage of high performing coaches, athletes and executives.

00:02:29:17 - 00:02:49:23
Kevin Eikenberry
She applied their ability for taking bold and sometimes surprising risks to her own personal professional life. The knowledge and experience she gained has made one intrepid career move after another, which led her to being one of the most experienced female play by play announcers in the country. Ann Marie, welcome. I'm so glad that you're here.

00:02:50:01 - 00:02:53:01
Anne Marie Anderson
Kevin. I'm delighted to be here. I'm looking forward to the conversation.

00:02:53:03 - 00:03:07:09
Kevin Eikenberry
So I've had World Series winning pitchers. I've had Super Bowl winning linebackers, but I've I've had Grammy Award winners. I've never had an Emmy Emmy Award winner. And, so welcome. So glad to have you.

00:03:07:11 - 00:03:09:04
Anne Marie Anderson
Thank you. We're rounding it out, then.

00:03:09:04 - 00:03:25:18
Kevin Eikenberry
We're starting the round. We're continuing to round it out. Well, after for almost 500 episodes, I suppose we ought to have. Hopefully we have a little bit of variety for folks. Listen, I'm so glad that you're here. We had a false start. You were ill, and we were going to do this before, so I've been looking forward to our conversation.

00:03:25:20 - 00:03:46:15
Kevin Eikenberry
I'd like to start by having you tell us just a little bit more about that journey, because I'm sure the folks who are listening, who are sports fans, really? Their ears perked up. But even for those who aren't, I, I think you've got an interesting journey. So just give us a little bit about sort of what led you from walking in the doors at ESPN to us having this conversation.

00:03:46:17 - 00:04:10:06
Anne Marie Anderson
Sure. So at 21 years old is when I was able to get a six month temporary job at ESPN, working six at night to three in the morning, six days a week, Mondays off for $15,000 a year. Right? That's the way we start. And it was fantastic. And I just held on. I mean, my 36 year, now as a broadcaster.

00:04:10:08 - 00:04:32:11
Anne Marie Anderson
And I did what, you know, the work that is necessary in order to climb the ladder. I spent ten years, behind the scenes producing, cutting highlights, doing everything, hiring people as a camera operator until I made the move in front of the camera, which was terrifying. And that's when I learned to really embrace fear and shut out my inner critic.

00:04:32:11 - 00:04:46:11
Anne Marie Anderson
And the last 25 years have been on camera just to keep changing my career as we have to role. So now I'm a play by play announcer. I have been a sideline reporter before and anchor and all that.

00:04:46:13 - 00:04:56:08
Kevin Eikenberry
All right, so that's a little bit about the journey. But that doesn't none of that story tells us the story of why there's a book. Why the book then?

00:04:56:10 - 00:05:22:10
Anne Marie Anderson
The book is because I come across so many people especially well, in two different groups. Right. There's the young people who are just starting their careers, and there's people about 45 to 55 who want to be doing something else. And the big question always is like, how do I get started? What I don't understand how I get there, and you can't get there until you figure out what's been in your way.

00:05:22:12 - 00:05:46:18
Anne Marie Anderson
And so as throughout my career and through coaching people, I've learned there's generally speaking four things that tend to be in our way. It's either fear, time, money, or your inner critic. Finally, I decided to write it in a book where we break down each barrier, examine kind of what we can do with it, because I don't believe Kevin in like, pushing down your fears or overcoming fears.

00:05:46:18 - 00:05:55:00
Anne Marie Anderson
They're already they're always going to be there. So I'm interested in how we can use whatever has been in our way in the past to propel us forward.

00:05:55:02 - 00:06:09:04
Kevin Eikenberry
You actually suggest that we should make friends with our fear, so why don't we talk about that since since you brought it up, why don't we talk about that today? Well, what do you. What do you mean by that? And why would you make such an audacious suggestion?

00:06:09:06 - 00:06:29:11
Anne Marie Anderson
Well, because a lot of times we're told, like, there's plenty of programs overcome your fears. Well, how do you how do you do that? That's not human nature. Fear is there to serve a purpose. Clear, in my view, is an invitation to grow. And so instead of using all this energy to shove it down and push it away, I say make friends with it.

00:06:29:17 - 00:06:40:17
Anne Marie Anderson
Meaning accept that it's going to be there and get curious about it. What is it that you're actually afraid of? Catastrophizing. What if all of that happens?

00:06:40:18 - 00:06:45:08
Kevin Eikenberry
And I thought I was the only one that use that word, by the way. Catastrophizing.

00:06:45:10 - 00:06:51:20
Anne Marie Anderson
Yeah. Catastrophize the whole thing to the end, where you're going to die destitute and alone and then think, is that really going to happen?

00:06:51:22 - 00:07:06:20
Kevin Eikenberry
Well, the odds of that happening are not very high right now. There was a great book in the 80s. I mean, I don't really remember much about the book, but the title was phenomenal. Feel the Fear and Do It anyway, which is another way of saying what you're saying. I believe that was woman's name was Susan Jeffers.

00:07:06:22 - 00:07:18:21
Kevin Eikenberry
Someone will probably correct me if I'm wrong. But I've always loved that title. And you're saying the same thing. Like we're not trying to suppress it. Remove it. We're trying to acknowledge it and say, how does it serve me? Right?

00:07:18:21 - 00:07:37:08
Anne Marie Anderson
Yes, yes, that's the key. Not just recognizing it, but how does it serve me and how has it hindered me? So as an example, like my first time going on air had already been at ESPN for ten years. I was terrified going on air, that I was going to be bad, that I was going to be embarrassed, that I was going to be judged.

00:07:37:10 - 00:07:42:00
Anne Marie Anderson
You know, all of that. And of course, all that happened. You're never good on television your first time.

00:07:42:02 - 00:07:44:02
Kevin Eikenberry
We never good at anything. Never.

00:07:44:03 - 00:08:08:08
Anne Marie Anderson
I'm riding your bike. Nothing. And so it's about okay, all those things happened and what happened. I got data to get better the next time. If I just wallowed in the fear, I would have no opportunity to learn. What was I embarrassed about? What was I judged? How did I think I failed in certain things to be able to get up there the next time and try it again?

00:08:08:10 - 00:08:28:21
Kevin Eikenberry
So there are some of us, and I'm speaking to you as everybody, as leaders, some of us as leaders, have this challenge that I'm about to mention. And all of you likely have people on your team who have this same challenge. Like you said, you were afraid of whether you would fail, that you would just do poorly.

00:08:28:23 - 00:08:48:17
Kevin Eikenberry
And then the last one, which is where I'm headed, just being judged. And so, as I said, some all of us have a little bit of fear around being judged. For some of us, it's a big deal. And again, as leaders, for some of your folks, it's a big deal. And so especially if it's not for you, you really need to hear what we're going to talk about.

00:08:48:17 - 00:08:55:18
Kevin Eikenberry
So Anne-Marie, what advice do you have to people specifically around that fear of being judged by others?

00:08:55:20 - 00:09:16:08
Anne Marie Anderson
The the key advice here is building a front row and a front row are people whose advice matters to you, who are doing big things on their own, who will help you grow and challenge you and lift you up. The reason you need that front row is for the other people that judge you. They don't get a vote.

00:09:16:10 - 00:09:44:03
Anne Marie Anderson
Laura Gassner Orting. In her book limitless, said, why give a voice to somebody who shouldn't even have a vote? And that's true. Like if the other people judging you aren't part of this front row that you've created to drive yourself forward, then that's just noise because you're working on you and going forward. So be careful. Once you create your front row, cut out the noise of the other people and just focus on the feedback you're getting.

00:09:44:04 - 00:10:07:19
Kevin Eikenberry
Yeah, the only thing I would say to that. So yeah, like any of us that do anything where we have the chance to be seen by a lot of people, there's a chance that you're going to get all sorts of feedback, and some of it will not really fall in line with anything else. Right. And so, like I often say, like if I've gone and given a, a session to a bunch of leaders and there's someone in the room, who's a plumber, no disrespect to plumbers.

00:10:07:22 - 00:10:29:00
Kevin Eikenberry
And their feedback to me is not really all that great. It's not it's not relevant. It's just not right now. Plumber or no. If I hear that same feedback 45 times at some point, I need to take a take note of that. And you're not saying not to do that, but what you're saying is that that front row, those folks that you know, have your best intention that they their best intention is on you being successful.

00:10:29:06 - 00:10:48:02
Kevin Eikenberry
That's that you want to you want to always value that and know that they're going to be honest with you and know that they they do want the very best for you. And having those folks in your life that you're that you're willing that that you will ask and they will willingly share super valuable. How do we how do we determine who those people are?

00:10:48:02 - 00:10:57:02
Kevin Eikenberry
Because it's not necessarily just the people closest to us. Right. Like so say a little bit more about determining who's on your front row.

00:10:57:04 - 00:11:12:09
Anne Marie Anderson
I'll tell you first who's not in your front row. It's probably not your mom. It's probably not your best friend. Right. Because they want you to be safe. Your front row isn't a bunch of people who are going to tell you you're great. It shouldn't be. It needs to be people who are going to tell you the truth.

00:11:12:15 - 00:11:35:02
Anne Marie Anderson
So the first thing I look for when I'm building a front row is somebody who's doing big things in their own life as well, doesn't have to be in the same arena as me, but somebody who's working to grow and get feedback coming back. Because remember, as you're talking about, oh, if you hear it 45 times from outside, you can bring that to your front row and say to them, here's something I'm getting.

00:11:35:04 - 00:12:02:05
Anne Marie Anderson
How do I work with this? So your front row needs to be people that are going to tell you the truth, that are going to lift you up, that are doing big things on their own. And when you ask them to be in your front row, listen to how they respond because you're giving somebody a role in your life, there's a social connection there and a significance and be aware of what they're barriers may be, because we're all seeing things through our prism.

00:12:02:05 - 00:12:13:23
Anne Marie Anderson
So if they're afraid of risk and you're trying to take some risks, they can be a great friend to you, a great colleague, but maybe they don't belong in your front row because of their bias against risk.

00:12:14:01 - 00:12:32:02
Kevin Eikenberry
Yeah. And again, that doesn't mean they're not in your life hasn't been their friend. It just means you're identifying, basically a set of expectations for, for a group of people that can really serve you effectively and being careful about who those people are really important. And as a leader, by the way, it's probably not two people on your team either.

00:12:32:06 - 00:12:43:01
Kevin Eikenberry
It's not mom, it's not your best friends. Probably not the people on your team, at least not in general, because, you know, positional power is is a thing, that's for sure.

00:12:43:03 - 00:13:03:05
Anne Marie Anderson
Kevin. I'm sorry. It can be a leader at another corporation or company who has the same idea of what you're going through. And your front row can be 3 or 4 people. It doesn't need to be this big mass of people. So you're exactly right. It isn't somebody in your team. It's somebody who understands your challenges.

00:13:03:07 - 00:13:16:09
Kevin Eikenberry
Yeah, I love that. Which means so. So how how would you say or would you say then. I mean, I know the phrase the front row of course applies to your work in sports. Is it different than a team of mentors?

00:13:16:11 - 00:13:39:15
Anne Marie Anderson
Yes it is. In what ways? Mentors? Mentorship a lot of times is one way. Right? They are helping you, but you're not necessarily offering value back to them just by the hierarchy of mentorship. Front row works best when it is reciprocal. When you are working with somebody else or a group of people to help elevate each other.

00:13:39:17 - 00:13:52:16
Anne Marie Anderson
And that's the difference for me between the front row and mentorship, because you learn by hearing their challenges, by trying to help them work through, by being inspired by them getting back up again after they have failed or been knocked down.

00:13:52:17 - 00:14:17:00
Kevin Eikenberry
So the the key word in my intro to our conversation, audacity is the keyword in the book Cultivating Audacity. That's who we're talking to today is the author of that book, Marie Anderson. And so I'm curious about that word audacity because like, okay, I don't know you, right? We've we've now been interacting for about 25 minutes, about 15 of which have been on the show.

00:14:17:01 - 00:14:37:23
Kevin Eikenberry
And but I know, I know something about you because I read the book. But that's what I got. And I wouldn't even have to read the book to watch you and and and to place myself in the position of someone in the audience and say, well, easy for her to be audacious. I mean, you can tell that she's got this outgoing personality.

00:14:37:23 - 00:15:00:13
Kevin Eikenberry
You can tell she's kind of vivacious. That's the audacity seemed, it would seem to be. That's like part of who she is. That's not me. And Marie. I'm not bold and I'm not brave. So talk to us about audacity in the context of how people might see themselves in relationship to that word.

00:15:00:15 - 00:15:21:16
Anne Marie Anderson
Audacity and extrovert are two very different ideas. It's funny that you say that because yes, I talk on television, so I'm used to being on camera and it's out here. If we're at a party, I'm in the corner. So I actually am an introvert, so, you know, but I have forced myself and learned to be more outgoing and more bold, if you will.

00:15:21:16 - 00:15:22:04
Anne Marie Anderson
I was not.

00:15:22:04 - 00:15:39:10
Kevin Eikenberry
Situationally. I don't mean to interrupt you, but I'm going to interrupt you anyway, right? Right. So that's the thing I want to say to all of you. Everybody is that, extroversion and introversion. Just if we're going to use that frame is, is a I would call it a flexor. In other words, you're not only one or the other.

00:15:39:10 - 00:15:58:12
Kevin Eikenberry
You're somewhere between them. And you can choose. You have a tendency, but you can choose situationally to move to a new place. And you can and you can pick a new place on that spectrum to be at any given time. So I needed to get that in there because you're so right and that's so important. So can now continue.

00:15:58:14 - 00:16:18:14
Anne Marie Anderson
Yes. And please, you can always interrupt me. We're having a conversation. I'm good with it because it is for me. I had to take calculated, bold risks. And how do you talk yourself into that? Part of it is catastrophizing what you and I have talked about. Like what is the very worst that could happen? And part of it is what happens if I don't?

00:16:18:18 - 00:16:43:06
Anne Marie Anderson
One thing that I am good at is understanding that I don't want to have regrets, and that came as a result of a tragedy at work when I was only 23 years old at ESPN, where a colleague of mine for whom I had interned. Yeah, since the introduction and hard work, he had just gotten his dream job, just gotten married, 37 years old, that dream job, life going great.

00:16:43:08 - 00:17:07:09
Anne Marie Anderson
And on his sixth day at work, before he'd even anchored Sports Center, he was still training. He collapsed and died. And as I was performing CPR on him, unsuccessfully, I kind of came to the realization I was 23 years old, that if you can be 37 and newly married and starting your dream job and have it ripped away in a moment that I was never going to wait for anything again, that was life changing for me.

00:17:07:11 - 00:17:25:02
Anne Marie Anderson
And that's where my audacity journey began. You don't need a tragedy to get you there. For me, that was the moment of me realizing I don't know how much time, and so I don't want to have regrets. I want to try everything and anything and see what lands.

00:17:25:04 - 00:17:46:09
Kevin Eikenberry
So. So since you bring that up, let's talk about you talk in the book about what you call the the urgency fallacy. And so you just talked about, hey, I'm not I'm going to push forward and all that sort of thing. And yet there is a fallacy around urgency. So talk about that sort of the balancing back what you just said just a little bit.

00:17:46:11 - 00:18:04:17
Anne Marie Anderson
Yeah. I think that we have a couple of things going on. One, our lives are so urgent now that we are attached to a phone, it feels as if everything is urgent. We get a text, we get an email, we get a request for something, and it feels like we have to answer that right away because we're available and everybody knows we have it.

00:18:04:19 - 00:18:23:21
Anne Marie Anderson
What happens is our lives can be completely consumed by urgent tasks. So what I ask people to do is separate things that are urgent from those that are important. And here's how you can tell. Things that are urgent are usually a response to a request. Somebody asks you, hey, can you get me that report? Can you answer my text?

00:18:23:21 - 00:18:46:14
Anne Marie Anderson
Can you answer my email? They usually have a deadline. I need it by this time. And they usually, if it's urgent, can be completed pretty quickly with the sense of accomplishment. That's what the to do list is, right where we take it off. Things that are important require more time and consideration, and they move us closer to our values, vision, goals, and who we want to be.

00:18:46:16 - 00:19:12:20
Anne Marie Anderson
If we don't create space, intentional space to do what's important, urgent will consume our day. And then we put it off till tomorrow. So I recommend at least an hour a day of doing what's important that will move you forward. And most of us don't have an hour continuously, so chunk it up if you need to, where everything shuts down because that email that's urgent can wait 15 minutes.

00:19:12:22 - 00:19:31:05
Kevin Eikenberry
It's something we can wait to and we can like. Chances are, hopefully you're not doing that while you're listening to us, because if you are, you're not serving either the email response, the person to respond to you or or the show very, very well. Actually. So, yeah, we could you and I could talk about that. We are on the same boat on all that.

00:19:31:05 - 00:19:48:23
Kevin Eikenberry
And here's the thing. If you want to have that hour, however, you have to lock it up. You need to put it on the calendar and then hold it dear. You can't let it go again. It's got to stay in the calendar. So talk about audacity. And so far we've really talked about it. Anne-Marie, from the from a personal perspective, which I wanted us to start with.

00:19:48:23 - 00:20:07:17
Kevin Eikenberry
And you certainly talked about that in the book, but obviously people that are here are wearing two hats. They're wearing the hat of I'm a human. They're also wearing the head of I'm a leader. So what thoughts would you have about leadership, audacity or what? How do we need to think about audacity in our role as a leader?

00:20:07:19 - 00:20:29:06
Anne Marie Anderson
When I speak to corporate audiences, businesses, firms, I talk about being a shape shifting leader, because in my decades in the boardrooms and locker rooms of some of the most successful franchises in sport, the thing that I saw amongst the elite leaders was a willingness to take risks. And that's what audacity is. It's a willingness to take bold risks.

00:20:29:11 - 00:20:57:19
Anne Marie Anderson
They're not so attached to the outcome. Great leaders are not so attached to the outcome. They know that the audacity, the win in audacity is in the action. And so as a leader, when you can inspire your people to take action without fear of massive repercussions of failure, then you can start to build a more audacious culture. And to do that, you got to be a shapeshifting leader and know each person's.

00:20:57:20 - 00:20:59:07
Anne Marie Anderson
Yes.

00:20:59:09 - 00:21:20:22
Kevin Eikenberry
Excellent. So I can't have you on, and not talk a little bit about your your work, because I think that even for folks who aren't, big sports fans, I think whenever I get the chance to sort of talk to people who are in, in roles that people recognize and, you know, they sort of see them at a distance.

00:21:20:22 - 00:21:36:08
Kevin Eikenberry
I think it's always useful and interesting to have that conversation. So what what is the best part at this point in your career? You've talked about the various things you've done in sports broadcasting, but as a play by play person, what's the best part of the job?

00:21:36:10 - 00:21:59:22
Anne Marie Anderson
The best part of the job for me is seeing people push themselves to be elite. I love watching people and their bodies do things that they've trained for. And then when the lights are on, it goes, well. I see a lot of people crushing to, but boy, when they when it works for them, I don't care what sport it is.

00:21:59:22 - 00:22:05:15
Anne Marie Anderson
I get so excited seeing athletes reach a new level.

00:22:05:17 - 00:22:08:21
Kevin Eikenberry
Favorite sport to announce?

00:22:08:23 - 00:22:13:20
Anne Marie Anderson
Oh, I love them. All of my aunts. I played volleyball, so that one.

00:22:13:22 - 00:22:18:18
Kevin Eikenberry
I mean, it's an unfair question to ask because someone's got this and say, well, we're not going to give her that gig because it's not our favorite.

00:22:19:00 - 00:22:34:15
Anne Marie Anderson
Oh yeah. Yeah. But I love all of it because again, I work with an analyst in any sport. Right. So I get to work with, you know, a five time Olympic medalist, water polo player, a WNBA champion, a, Bill Walton was a partner of mine before he passed.

00:22:34:16 - 00:22:37:19
Kevin Eikenberry
There's a whole there's a set of stories. I'm sure you have of.

00:22:37:21 - 00:22:59:05
Anne Marie Anderson
Stories with Bill Walton, but God rest his soul, he was awesome. So I love the partnership that I have, where I can be the viewer and ask the questions. The viewer wants to know, how did that happen? Why did that happen? How can they stop that from happening again? That's my job as a play by play.

00:22:59:07 - 00:23:20:21
Kevin Eikenberry
I had this conversation with my wife all the time. You watch a movie, you watch a television show, and you know that half of what's happening in whatever profession it is isn't actually what actually happens, right? Like that would never happen. What's what's what are a couple of the biggest misconceptions that we might collectively have about doing play by play or doing doing live sports?

00:23:20:23 - 00:23:41:11
Anne Marie Anderson
That it's easy. So many people say all the time, I can do that, and they get up there, or if they get the opportunity and they just talk over it. And here's the biggest misconception the really good play by play announcer. It's not about them. You may not even know their names. It's about the athletes and it's about setting up the analyst.

00:23:41:11 - 00:24:03:11
Anne Marie Anderson
And I think too many times people, especially for the play by play role, they think, oh, I can do that. And it's about them and not the audience. And so it requires work and preparation. I don't get up there and wing it. There is a misconception for you. People think, oh, I get up there and wing it. No, there's days and days of preparation for each event.

00:24:03:11 - 00:24:10:05
Anne Marie Anderson
I know everybody's background and everybody's skills, everybody's past injuries. It's prep how to.

00:24:10:05 - 00:24:28:14
Kevin Eikenberry
Pronounce their names, which name is which number, and a hundred other things like that. Right. I have sat across the aisle, on airplanes many times with folks who were, living in Indianapolis who were coming to do a Colts game. And, you know, the books are out and the whole flight, all they're doing is studying. Oh, yeah.

00:24:28:19 - 00:24:48:03
Kevin Eikenberry
And not that's just one example. I can think of several, but it's like anything else. You and I are having this conversation before we started. About preparation for this. Right. And when we, when we arrive ready, we're we're better. We have a better chance of being successful. And I think there are two things that you just said that I would hope all of you as leaders would take.

00:24:48:03 - 00:25:10:08
Kevin Eikenberry
One. Is that that preparation piece? Yeah. The other piece is there's an awful just like there are play by play folks who talk too much. There are a lot of leaders that talk too much as well. So you could go back. Everybody just listen to that short little snippet, and and take out play by play announcer and put in leader.

00:25:10:10 - 00:25:16:06
Kevin Eikenberry
And it would all we should be trying to set up our team. Just like in Reese trying to set up her analyst.

00:25:16:08 - 00:25:53:10
Anne Marie Anderson
You know, Kevin, I really love that your book is called Flexible Leadership. Right? Because that's a huge part of it too. And that's another part that I had seen amongst the best leaders. You know, there it is beautiful and such an important point. And you know, if anybody watched I don't know if you're a sports fan, if you watched The Last Dance during Covid about the Bulls final season, you really got an idea of how Phil Jackson was a shape shifting leader and allowing Dennis Rodman to go to Vegas in the middle of the season, but never would allow that for Michael Jordan because, as he put it, Dennis Rodman doesn't need basketball.

00:25:53:12 - 00:26:19:03
Anne Marie Anderson
He didn't need it. It wasn't his identity, but they needed Rodman in order to win. So he had to do what was needed to keep Rodman engaged. Michael Jordan, his whole identity was basketball, so he's not going to send him off for a weekend in Vegas because his needs were different. Flexible leadership. I can't wait to read your book because flexible leadership and a shapeshifting leader tie together so well, so energy.

00:26:19:04 - 00:26:37:03
Kevin Eikenberry
There's a lot of stuff we talked about, and if this wasn't on a recording and I could just talk to you about sports, we would do that. But I know that that's not the purpose of this show, nor what best serves our audience. But I am curious if there's a if there's something that I didn't ask that you thought I might or wish I would have asked.

00:26:37:05 - 00:27:02:08
Anne Marie Anderson
I think the only thing I would want you're so prepared, which is beautiful. I think the thing that I would want people to know that are listening is that going back to that one point, this is an innate trait. You have to learn and challenge yourself and practice being audacious. It isn't something that just comes naturally, not skilled audacity, because there are reckless risks and there are risks that are worth it.

00:27:02:08 - 00:27:08:13
Anne Marie Anderson
And that's a very important part of cultivating audacity in your life.

00:27:08:15 - 00:27:25:23
Kevin Eikenberry
Writing that that there are reckless risks, everybody, and there are risks worth taking. I hope that there have been multiple times during the show that something that that Andrea has said, that that stopped you in your tracks. You have the advantage, everybody of hitting the pause button. I don't I have to do it in real time.

00:27:26:01 - 00:27:35:11
Kevin Eikenberry
So I want to know. Anne-Marie, it's clear that you love your work. But life is more than work. What do you do for fun?

00:27:35:13 - 00:27:57:19
Anne Marie Anderson
I do any sport possible, I play golf, I play volleyball, I spend a lot of time. I have three kids who are now growing up, and I take them with me when we talk about, like, how much I love my work, the assignment I must spend the rest of my day on after this is preparing to go overseas to call international volleyball competition.

00:27:57:19 - 00:28:24:14
Anne Marie Anderson
And part of my agreement with this company is that I get to bring my children. And so when you ask what I do for fun, part of it is being able to expose them to different parts of the world. So they'll come with me and see international competition in Rio, Istanbul, China, Poland, the Netherlands, everywhere I'm going this summer and then get to experience the culture and see how life is different in different parts of the world and how similar we are as well.

00:28:24:15 - 00:28:36:05
Kevin Eikenberry
And both of those things are true. So what are you reading these days? Maybe. Maybe there won't be a lot of books with you on the trip, I don't know, or maybe a lobby on the Kindle, but what are you reading right now?

00:28:36:07 - 00:28:59:23
Anne Marie Anderson
I am reading Good Awkward by Hannah Pryor, Hannah's book. First of all, it's so well-written, and it's it's a lot of fun. And she's talking about working through the moments where we felt kind of awkward, or we feel awkward in addressing a group or handling a problem, and her tips to work with it. I really am enjoying good Awkward by Hannah Pryor.

00:29:00:01 - 00:29:11:16
Kevin Eikenberry
And sounds like there's a connection to making for your friend. I'm just going to bet on that. Where can we learn more about your work and where you get the book? Like where do you want to point people before we wrap up?

00:29:11:17 - 00:29:33:02
Anne Marie Anderson
Sure. If you're interested in the book, you can get the first chapter free. Cultivating audacity.com, and there's exercises in there you can do, it's going to be out on audible soon. And then if you want to potentially work with me, you can find me at Ann-Marie anderson.com. I answer all of those messages myself.

00:29:33:02 - 00:29:37:23
Kevin Eikenberry
So that's Anderson with an on everybody and Marie and with an E.

00:29:38:05 - 00:29:48:22
Anne Marie Anderson
And with me Marie. As Bill Walton said when we first met, he said, Amory, I'm Bill with two L's. And I said, and with the name Marie Bill, nice to meet you.

00:29:49:00 - 00:30:07:11
Kevin Eikenberry
After we end, I'm going to have to ask a Bill Walton question. But anyway, everybody, before we go and before I say goodbye to Ann Marie, a question for all of you. If you've been here before, you know the question. I'm not apologizing for that. The question is, now what? What are you going to do as a result of this?

00:30:07:11 - 00:30:23:05
Kevin Eikenberry
Maybe you're going to think differently about that word audacity and how it applies to you. Maybe you're going to think differently about risks. Maybe you're going to think differently, in a lot of different ways. But I want you to do more than just say that that was a good idea. But I really want you to do is to take action.

00:30:23:11 - 00:30:44:00
Kevin Eikenberry
And and I'm not here to prescribe what that action should be for you, but rather to encourage you to do that, because until you act on something that you learned here, this is maybe a little better than entertainment, but until you take action on it, then it becomes really valuable. I hope that you'll do exactly that. And Marie, thanks for being here.

00:30:44:00 - 00:30:45:03
Kevin Eikenberry
It's a pleasure to have you.

00:30:45:05 - 00:30:47:17
Anne Marie Anderson
Wonderful talking with you and everybody.

00:30:47:17 - 00:31:04:19
Kevin Eikenberry
If you liked this and this was your first time, make sure it's not your last. And if you've already been here before, make sure you're subscribed wherever you're listening to this podcast so you don't miss any future episodes. We'll be back next week with another episode of the Remarkable Leadership Podcast. Thanks everybody.