The Remarkable Leadership Podcast

00:00:08:15 - 00:00:31:15
Kevin Eikenberry
Delegation. We know how to do it. We know we need to do it. And some of us find it hard to do or haven't been very successful in doing it. And delegation is our focus today, that foundational skill that we as leaders often mess up or avoid. Or even if you consider yourself a good delegator, I promise you there will be nuggets for you here.

00:00:31:15 - 00:00:57:09
Kevin Eikenberry
Today, on another episode of the Remarkable Leadership Podcast, where we are helping leaders grow personally and professionally, to lead more effectively and make a bigger difference for their teams organizations in the world. If you are listening to this podcast, you could join us in the future for episodes live as we live stream that stream them on our likely your favorite social media channel.

00:00:57:13 - 00:01:32:02
Kevin Eikenberry
You can get access to those lives, know when they're taking place by joining our Facebook or LinkedIn groups, though those aren't the only two places that we, actually, do stream these. You can join us on remarkable podcast.com/facebook or remarkable podcast.com/linkedin to get all those details in the future. our episode today is brought to you by our remarkable master classes pick from 13 important life and leadership skills to help you become more effective, productive, and confident while overcoming some of the leader's toughest challenges.

00:01:32:03 - 00:01:53:12
Kevin Eikenberry
You can learn more and sign up at Remarkable Podcast dot. Excuse me. Remarkable masterclass.com. And with that I'm going to bring in my guest. He's right here. I'll introduce him, say a couple things and then we will dive in. so Dave Kirpan is our guest today. He's a serial entrepreneur. New York Times bestselling author and global keynote speaker.

00:01:53:14 - 00:02:19:21
Kevin Eikenberry
He is the co-founder and CEO of apprentice, a platform connecting entrepreneurs with top college students, and is the author of several bestselling books, including the Art of people, Likable Social Media, and Likable Business. He's a popular contributor to places like. inc.com. He has a LinkedIn influencer, has been featured in many media outlets including The New York Times, The Today Show, the CBS Early Show, and lots more.

00:02:19:23 - 00:02:50:08
Kevin Eikenberry
He is the executive chairman of the Nursing Beat and the co-founder and CEO of Remembering Live. He was previously the founder and chairman of Likable Local and was the co-founder and CEO of Likable Media, which was sold in 2021. He was the third guest ever on this podcast. In July of 2016. So if you're watching or listening to this on the podcast, almost eight years later, he's back to join us again.

00:02:50:09 - 00:03:06:11
Kevin Eikenberry
We've done some other work together in the past, but today he's here to talk with us about his newest book, Get Over Yourself How to Lead and Delegate More Effectively for More Time, more freedom, and more success. Dave, welcome back.

00:03:06:13 - 00:03:13:20
Dave Kerpen
Thank you. Thank you. Great to be back. Great to see you. Thanks for the wonderful intro. And and great to see you again. Eight years. It's been too long.

00:03:13:22 - 00:03:33:01
Kevin Eikenberry
Well, and yeah, we have done a couple things in between. We've done a couple of webinars. We've done a LinkedIn live on yours. And from your perspective, as I recall, worked with some of your apprentices and some of that. But we'll get we'll get to maybe some of our history a little bit. But really where I want to go now is a little bit into your history.

00:03:33:03 - 00:03:39:18
Kevin Eikenberry
specifically, I'm curious, why did you decide to write a book about delegation?

00:03:39:20 - 00:04:11:22
Dave Kerpen
Yeah. So so this is my fifth book, and, as you mentioned, I'm an entrepreneur. I've started all these companies and in in many of my companies, I've worked with a lot of small businesses. and so I would say in my journey over the last 20 years, I have encountered, and worked with, talked with, coached, mentored, a little over a thousand, entrepreneurs and small business owners, and leaders at different companies.

00:04:12:00 - 00:04:37:11
Dave Kerpen
And the number one issue that I have seen pop up over and over and over again is challenges around delegation. And, and it just seems that so many folks struggle with this. They either do the work all themselves and refuse to delegate, or are incapable of delegating or scared of delegating or the opposite problem they delegate and then they micromanage and they oversee.

00:04:37:13 - 00:05:00:23
Dave Kerpen
And they have a lot of challenges with being too involved. And so I wrote this book because my hope is that I can help people get over themselves and better delegate. And for me, the stakes are high. Kevin. You know, it's not just about building a better business or, or being more efficient with your work or being more productive.

00:05:01:01 - 00:05:29:06
Dave Kerpen
It's about freeing up your time and prioritizing your life, right? You know, people talk about to you, do you live to work or work to live? My hope is that with this book, people will. Get mentally right, better delegate and be able to prioritize either time with their kids or time with their grandkids, or time finding a spouse or time exercising whatever it is that you prioritize.

00:05:29:09 - 00:05:46:12
Dave Kerpen
My hope is that through delegation, you'll be able to better focus on that in your time. And because we don't, you only we only get one life. We only get one one shot at this. And I just hope people will be able to spend their time in more meaningful ways than perhaps they're spending it right now.

00:05:46:14 - 00:06:18:09
Kevin Eikenberry
So, tell us a little bit, Dave. Like, you know, people often say, well, if you can't do teach, right? If you've heard that before, I'm curious about your own. I mean, you talk about it in the book. So I, I sort of know the answer. but I think to the audience, it might be useful to know a little bit about your own delegation journey, like, no one I you know, my experience is that much like yours, that leaders struggle with this and on either end of that spectrum, as you describe.

00:06:18:11 - 00:06:24:04
Kevin Eikenberry
and so it's for almost all of us, it's a journey. So tell us a little bit about your delegation journey.

00:06:24:06 - 00:06:46:00
Dave Kerpen
Sure. So so, you know, I, I was an accidental entrepreneur. my my wife and I got married at a baseball stadium. We got to had a sponsored wedding. It was a huge hit. And, literally after our, our wedding, our our our vendors that had sponsored the wedding, 100 flowers.com that it sponsored our flowers and intimated it sponsor our desserts.

00:06:46:06 - 00:07:14:07
Dave Kerpen
Said, this was great. We got so much media. What are you going to do next? We couldn't get married again. So we started a business and we started this business. we're running a marketing firm, called the CBOs. Then it's. It was then changed. Likable before it was sold a couple years ago. And all of a sudden we had all this work to do and this business and this opportunity that we've kind of stumbled into.

00:07:14:09 - 00:07:40:11
Dave Kerpen
We also had a young child at home, and while we were excited about the business opportunity, we kind of started the business so that we would have the ability that to to go home and be with our kid. and as these opportunities arose, all of a sudden our, our we found our priorities shifting and all of a sudden we were spending all this time in the office and we were like, the heck are we doing this for this?

00:07:40:11 - 00:08:14:19
Dave Kerpen
This is backwards. And I think I'm really, really grateful that we have that insight, Kevin, because I think a lot of people just fall into this trap and all of a sudden, you know, it's years and years later and maybe they didn't shift their mindset and they didn't shift their ways. Well, fortunately, you know, it's pretty early on in our, in our, in our first business that my wife and I said, you know, if we're going to have the time to spend with our with our young basically baby, you know, she was one at a time, if we're going to have time, we're going to have to figure out a way to delegate.

00:08:14:19 - 00:08:33:22
Dave Kerpen
We can't do this work ourselves, and we couldn't afford to hire full time staff either. So it was a conundrum. And that's the probably the biggest pushback I get from folks is like, well, I can't afford to hire someone. I can't I can't afford to bring on somebody else. Fortunately, we figured out that we could bring in college students.

00:08:34:00 - 00:08:56:03
Dave Kerpen
We could pay them part time to work as interns. And they were really, really smart. And we call them buzz builders. And at one point we had six of them running around in this small Queen's office. And just like 2 or 3 full time staff, and we were able to let go and and honestly, they made some big mistakes along the way.

00:08:56:07 - 00:09:16:17
Dave Kerpen
So that part scary. But we were able to let go, give them the work, and have that time with our, with our child, which was key. And then of course, as the business grew, we had we had more, more and more needs and we were able to find the resources to bring on more senior folks over time.

00:09:16:19 - 00:09:42:18
Dave Kerpen
and I've done this a number of times, of course, with various different businesses. and for me, you know, where's my journey today? I am so, so fortunate, Kevin, because I have set some very, very strict boundaries about my working time and my non-working time. 3:00 every day I'm off and I'm picking my son up off the bus, and I'm spending the afternoon with my son.

00:09:42:20 - 00:10:06:17
Dave Kerpen
I'm doing his homework with him and taking him to sports activities and, and and taking care of him and. That might mean that I'm unable to build, as big a business as I would have otherwise. It might. But for me, it means that I'm delegating work to be done during that time. I'm prioritizing and I'm very being very strict about those boundaries.

00:10:06:17 - 00:10:29:09
Dave Kerpen
And for me, that works. My hope is that, you know, maybe some of your listeners or some of my readers will have an moment at some point and they'll think, this is what I really want to prioritize with my time. How do I get there? Maybe delegation, maybe trusting someone, maybe giving somebody else some work to do might be a way to solve that.

00:10:29:11 - 00:10:55:08
Kevin Eikenberry
Yeah, we could probably spend the rest of our time talking about all the reasons why people don't or hesitate in doing it. although if you're listening, you could go back and listen to the first ten minutes and you'd find a bunch of clues already. So I really want to go past that because I, I'm guessing that if people are listening at some level, they'd like to get better at this, and they may have and that most people I've found no why they're stuck here.

00:10:55:08 - 00:11:10:09
Kevin Eikenberry
I mean, part of it is getting over yourself, which is, of course, the title of the book. but I want to go past that a little bit. And because you've been extolling the virtues of this now for ten minutes. So the question is, what shouldn't we delegate?

00:11:10:11 - 00:11:32:22
Dave Kerpen
Yeah. So there are, in my opinion, just three things that we shouldn't delegate. And and I'll tell you a funny story about that because I got into an argument my, my with my editor about it. But, the three things that I believe that we should not delegate are the strategy and vision. And when I say this, Kevin, if you're an entrepreneur, it's for your company.

00:11:32:23 - 00:11:54:11
Dave Kerpen
If you're a manager at a company, it's for your team, for for the, the group that you supervise. So the three things that we should not delegate are the strategy and vision, the hiring of the right people in the right seats for your team and the the the access to resources. Again, if you're an entrepreneur, it's cash in the bank.

00:11:54:13 - 00:12:16:10
Dave Kerpen
If you're, an employee at a, at a bigger company, it's making sure that, you have the headcount and the budget to be able to get the job done, strategy, hiring, access to resources. Those are the three things that we shouldn't delegate, that we should focus on ourselves. Now, I got into an argument with my editor. So wonderful.

00:12:16:12 - 00:12:37:11
Dave Kerpen
publisher Ben Bella, they published, traction, you know, EOS, you know, being one of the one of the greatest books of all time in the entrepreneurial space. And, and he, he, personally, he edited did the first round of edits for this book. the publisher, which was sort of ironic because he has a big team he could have delegated to, but he wanted to, work on it.

00:12:37:11 - 00:13:08:13
Dave Kerpen
Personally, I was I was flattered, so he he did the first read of the book, and he came back to me and he said, well, Dave, you know, you're saying to only focus on these three things, but a lot of people are love doing stuff. I mean, don't you love marketing? I mean, if you love doing something, if you're really good at it, isn't that something that you should focus on versus just the strategy, the hiring, the access to resources and said, look, you can I'm not saying you can't, do that if you don't want to, but there's a hidden downside to doing things just because you're good at it.

00:13:08:13 - 00:13:14:19
Dave Kerpen
Just because you enjoy doing it, you're you're, you're you're potentially disempowering somebody else who could be doing that.

00:13:14:22 - 00:13:31:15
Kevin Eikenberry
Yeah, I think that's the key question there like is my me me making that choice and I don't I don't love his point of should. Right. But but could is me make how is me making that choice impacting my the rest of my team, whether I know it or not? I think that's a really important point.

00:13:31:17 - 00:13:48:17
Dave Kerpen
Exactly. So so look, I love marketing and it's true. So I might sit in on my marketing team, meeting and I might have an idea or two and I might want to contribute. But the moment that I start taking over and saying, oh, it has to be this way, it has to be that way now I'm interfering.

00:13:48:17 - 00:14:11:00
Dave Kerpen
Now I'm really not helping. And I might think I'm helping. But again, it's this idea we have. We have this inner narcissism, Kevin. We we think all of us all. And I'm not saying with me, you or everyone at some level thinks that we're good at stuff. And if we really think about it, okay, I might be pretty good at marketing, but there's lots of people that are as good at marketing as I am or better.

00:14:11:02 - 00:14:27:03
Dave Kerpen
And no matter what the the talent, what the skill is, chances are there's a lot more people out there that are way better than I am at it. And so if I can humble myself for a moment and say, maybe I'm not the very best person in the world for this, I mean, let me try to find somebody better at it.

00:14:27:05 - 00:14:53:12
Dave Kerpen
Bring them on. Well then everyone wins. So it's not to your point. It's not necessarily, should can you do other stuff? Yeah, you can do everything. You can delegate nothing. And then where that gets you. Right. So, so so ultimately the idea is in my view, those three things are the things that it's just it's just not it's just not a good idea to delegate them because they're core to the success of the business or the team.

00:14:53:14 - 00:15:03:15
Dave Kerpen
So focus on those three things. But to the extent that you can empower somebody else or tools to help do the rest, then it's a good thing.

00:15:03:17 - 00:15:25:23
Kevin Eikenberry
So it seems then the the logical thing for us to talk about next, David, is how and you say there's five CS, to do in it, which I love. And here's why I love them everybody. Because first of all, I love acronyms. Acronyms. And so and I love alliteration. And beyond that, though, I love that not a single one of these is unclear.

00:15:26:02 - 00:15:42:19
Kevin Eikenberry
Like as you describe them. And I want you to unpack them a little bit, but like every one of them is, you're going to say as a listener, oh yeah, but I don't want you to get lost in the oh, yeah, I already know that. I want you to listen what Dave is going to say, because chances are you're not doing all of them or you wouldn't stay still, be listening to this conversation.

00:15:42:19 - 00:15:48:09
Kevin Eikenberry
Right. So five C's of how to delegate effectively.

00:15:48:15 - 00:15:48:22
Dave Kerpen
Yeah.

00:15:48:22 - 00:15:55:08
Kevin Eikenberry
And it's interesting. Well I'll save my observation till the end. Go ahead. Okay. Cool. One at a time. Go ahead.

00:15:55:09 - 00:16:12:23
Dave Kerpen
Okay. Great. And I'll start with a quick caveat that the biggest knock knock on on all my books has been that a lot of the stuff in the books is obvious. Okay. It is. And yet so many folks struggle with it that on the positive side of my books that I say this for all of them, including Get Over Yourself.

00:16:13:01 - 00:16:24:08
Dave Kerpen
if if it were so easy and simple, then everyone would just do it. But they don't. So it's it serves, in my humble opinion, or not so humble opinion, as a good reminder of what it is that we can focus on.

00:16:24:10 - 00:16:41:05
Kevin Eikenberry
100%. One of the reasons that we get along, I think, and and everybody always remember this, that common sense is not common practice. So it may make common sense to you. But listen carefully and I'll put each of the five on the screen as you go. So just walk us through the five CS.

00:16:41:07 - 00:17:04:03
Dave Kerpen
Right. Great. So the first C is a probably the most important of all. And this is where people, I think make the biggest mistakes. And that's to choose carefully the person or team that you are delegating the work to. What most are. The most common mistake here is people do not choose carefully. They choose randomly, arbitrarily, or based on proximity.

00:17:04:09 - 00:17:07:06
Dave Kerpen
Okay, switching around you is a.

00:17:07:06 - 00:17:09:15
Kevin Eikenberry
Really big deal, especially if your team is virtual.

00:17:09:17 - 00:17:28:14
Dave Kerpen
That's right. You you do it. Hey, hey, my cousin is a 22 year old. They know social media. They do. You do it. Hey, my next door neighbor can do this job because they're right next door. Hey, I happen to have this person on my team now. They didn't really study this. They don't really have the skills, but they're on my team already.

00:17:28:14 - 00:17:49:21
Dave Kerpen
So then do it. That is a big mistake. And so we need to really choose carefully the old adage hire slow, fire, fast is a good reminder here. Like think about who is the best person or team for the job? It could be an employee, could be a contractor, could be an intern, could be a vendor, could be an agency.

00:17:49:21 - 00:18:20:08
Dave Kerpen
It could be a consultant. It could be somebody either Upwork or Fiverr. The list goes on and on. So choose carefully the best person or team for the job. That's the first thing. The next say is to communicate clearly. The outcome, the intended outcome of the project or task. Now look, some folks get caught up in this. This is micromanaging and they insist upon communicating clearly every step along the way.

00:18:20:10 - 00:18:46:05
Dave Kerpen
I would say that's better than not communicating anything for sure. But in an ideal world, you're communicating clearly the intended outcome, and you're empowering the person that you've selected to find their own path to that outcome. People do not like being micromanaged. Anyone that's ever had a boss that many of us. I would implore y'all to think back to any time you've had a boss.

00:18:46:05 - 00:19:07:18
Dave Kerpen
I know I have had that micromanage me. It felt horrible, disempowering, frustrating, infuriating at times. Obviously, we don't want to do that in this case, right? We want to we want to make people feel good about their job. So giving them the finish line and letting them figure out how to get there. I like to tell a joke about the New York City Marathon some years ago now.

00:19:07:18 - 00:19:27:05
Dave Kerpen
I don't I don't advocate cheating to get there, but there was a woman that that took the subway. It took the subway to the finish line and then jumped in the end and ran. And for a moment, people thought she and she had won the New York City Marathon. Don't take the subway, but empower people to figure out their own path to get to the finish line.

00:19:27:07 - 00:19:49:00
Kevin Eikenberry
So I'll add one thing to communicate really, and that. So you're saying communicate the what? Not so much the how, but I think oftentimes we need to make sure we're communicating the why as well. Like where does this fit in. Who does it go to next. How does it get used putting that into context. And so much of all of this, everybody is stuff that you have in your brain.

00:19:49:05 - 00:19:56:16
Kevin Eikenberry
And when you go to communicate it, you're forgetting all the stuff that's obvious to you. You can't. That's where the clearly part comes in.

00:19:56:18 - 00:20:15:19
Dave Kerpen
A 100% on the why. And it's especially important with, this new generation that is the most purposeful sort of generation we've had. But it's but it's important for everyone. People like to feel like there's a greater purpose beyond their work. So motivating them with the why you don't. We're not doing this just because it needs to get done.

00:20:15:19 - 00:20:29:14
Dave Kerpen
We're doing this because it's part of this bigger picture. And if your job as a leader to help communicate that bigger picture and that bigger purpose, so the next step is to coach them along the way.

00:20:29:16 - 00:20:36:10
Kevin Eikenberry
Way. We had a question come in and I think you're going to give the answer here. So I'm going to have that person hang on. Go ahead.

00:20:36:12 - 00:20:40:04
Dave Kerpen
Okay. You're not going to tell me the question. You're just going to assume that I'll give the answer hopefully I will.

00:20:40:06 - 00:20:41:18
Kevin Eikenberry
No, I think you will.

00:20:41:20 - 00:21:05:01
Dave Kerpen
Okay. So there's a big difference in my mind between a manager and a coach. And I just want to take a moment to, to, to articulate that a manager and many of us may have manager in our titles, a manager manages to work. people in general don't really like managers or management or being managed, but people love coaches.

00:21:05:02 - 00:21:37:07
Dave Kerpen
A great coach for anyone that was ever an athlete as a kid, a great coach motivates and supports and helped you. When you're struggling and helps you get in. and help accomplish the goals. So. So if we think of ourselves less as managers and more as coaches and even cheerleaders, helping to coach and cheer our designated, person to our designated delegate, delegate, delegate, delegate to get the job done that's going to be most successful.

00:21:37:07 - 00:22:02:20
Dave Kerpen
So Sherri asked, so when do you step in when you don't micromanage? Well, I've that actually gets into the next C, which is check in regularly. So a big mistake. Actually. The biggest delegation mistake I've made, which people are always asking is I sometimes mis have missed this along the way. Sometimes I go so far in empowering that I say, here's the finish line, I'll see you in six months.

00:22:02:22 - 00:22:22:07
Dave Kerpen
And the reality is that many people really do appreciate a regular check in. Now, the check in is also for you to put your mind. It is to help you with the trust that's so important, and to help you know that things are going along the way. But but the checking is very helpful for the person too, so that you can look at benchmarks and you can help course correct.

00:22:22:07 - 00:22:43:06
Dave Kerpen
If there are challenges, I recommend probably a once a week depending on the project or task. Of course, probably a once a week check in for 15 minutes no longer than 15 minutes. And in the formula for a great check in is hey, how you doing? how what kind of progress are you making? Any roadblocks along the way?

00:22:43:11 - 00:23:02:17
Dave Kerpen
How can I help you with any of those roadblocks? It's more focused on them and their goals and helping you accomplish your goals. And if you make the check in centric around the person and not you, that will be most helpful. And that's not micromanaging. That's that's really not so. It's a matter of how we think about it to go ahead.

00:23:02:21 - 00:23:22:14
Kevin Eikenberry
So yeah, let me add a comment here. And we talked about and debut and I talked a lot during the pandemic and all that. And we've sent people to the hinterlands and all that stuff. One of the things that folks who were working at home found is, well, why does my boss keep checking up on me? And so and it felt like micromanaging.

00:23:22:14 - 00:23:45:14
Kevin Eikenberry
And by the way, micromanagement is always defined by the other person. Like few people wannabe might think they're micromanaging, but the others are deciding. But here's the point that if you will say in your in your laying out of the process and you're clear communication that, hey, why don't we meet once a week for no more than 15 minutes?

00:23:45:16 - 00:24:01:10
Kevin Eikenberry
Now it doesn't feel like people are being checked up on it feels like they're being checked in with it to totally change it. They may. They may wish for a different timeline than that, but they understand what the timeline is. It also holds us accountable for making sure we do it right.

00:24:01:12 - 00:24:24:03
Dave Kerpen
That's right. And you know, I've seen I've seen the opposite. I've seen daily hourly texts. How's everything going? What's going on? What's the latest? People can't even focus on their job. That's it. That's insanity. We have to take a step back and give people the space to succeed or fail by the way. But. But to learn along the way and grow and make some mistakes and ultimately to succeed.

00:24:24:03 - 00:24:46:18
Dave Kerpen
And that people, people are going to if people succeed at 90%, that's great. Which gets us to my 50, which is also, I would say, the second most commonly forgotten part of this, which is at the end of the task, congratulate them like, like, don't just move on to the next thing. Like take a moment to say, this was awesome.

00:24:46:23 - 00:25:10:21
Dave Kerpen
Here are the five things that you did best. Here's the one thing that I noticed that I think next time along the way we can we can improve upon. But by the way, amazing job. Thank you so much. Right. We I get into the book, and with Enneagram and what people are motivated by. But think think through what your person here is most motivated by and then give them that.

00:25:10:21 - 00:25:21:09
Dave Kerpen
Give them that, that that feeling of success and that feeling of pride, that feeling of getting the job done. And then after that, you can move on to the next project or task.

00:25:21:11 - 00:25:38:13
Kevin Eikenberry
Yeah. And if it's and let's say it's a, it's, it's a process that you've handed them. Right. And they're going to keep doing it. One of the things that I have found is that when we're able to do what you said earlier, which is let go of the how and let them figure out the how, then when one of the things we can do in the congratulate is, hey, you know what?

00:25:38:15 - 00:25:52:07
Kevin Eikenberry
You did that differently than me. And I think it worked every bit as well. That worked better. Like that's a better way to do it. And I'm glad that I didn't try to prescribe my way on you because you found a better way. And like that statement in and of itself can be really powerful to people.

00:25:52:10 - 00:25:53:19
Dave Kerpen
So totally, totally.

00:25:53:19 - 00:25:58:15
Kevin Eikenberry
Reminds us to keep ourselves out of it as well. And get over ourselves.

00:25:58:17 - 00:26:32:18
Dave Kerpen
Exactly, exactly. Yeah, I mean, it it the thing is, when we have that attitude, then we we, we earn some credibility to actually say, you know what? You that was better than, than I would have done it. As we continue iterating on the process, here's a couple more ideas to think about. Maybe you can make this process even better next time around in a way that doesn't feel like micromanaging, because we earn the credibility by letting them figure it out on their own and giving them the positive feedback on that.

00:26:32:20 - 00:26:47:10
Kevin Eikenberry
we you and I could have a, a much longer conversation on this than probably anyone else wants to listen to, or that we're going to spend, spend time on this morning. but I do wonder if there's anything I didn't ask that you wish I would have.

00:26:47:12 - 00:27:12:02
Dave Kerpen
Oh, that's one of my favorite interview questions, because it's, like, super. open. you know what? I was surprised, Kevin, that you didn't. We didn't get into, the the the emotional detractors at all. And I would just say that that, for anyone that's watching or listening and thinking, I know I need to do this, but I'm still not there.

00:27:12:04 - 00:27:32:18
Dave Kerpen
It's just not there. I get a I into the book a lot about the fear and the trust issues that hold most people back, and, and I would just say that it's okay if you're feeling afraid. it's scary. It's really scary to hand things over to other people. It's really, really scary to hand things over to other people that you don't yet fully trust.

00:27:33:00 - 00:27:34:20
Dave Kerpen
And I totally get it.

00:27:34:21 - 00:27:36:10
Kevin Eikenberry
And yet.

00:27:36:12 - 00:27:55:08
Dave Kerpen
If we are going to be successful in this mission, we're going to have to have the courage to, struggle with our fear and our trust and our control, our perfectionism issues, all of which I get into in the book, and then move through them and and get over ourselves and deal with it.

00:27:55:09 - 00:28:15:06
Kevin Eikenberry
100%. And and there's no doubt that those barriers exist. And I think what you said, Dave, is really important is that if you're listening or watching and you're feeling those, know that you're not alone and know that when you get a copy of Get Over Yourself, you will get all of that. Those details as well, without question.

00:28:15:08 - 00:28:36:05
Kevin Eikenberry
So I do have a couple other questions, though, Dave, before we finish. And they're sort of excuse me, are sort of shifting gears now. And one of those is what do you do for fun? You mentioned your son and the 3 to 6 p.m. slot, but like, what else do you do for fun? Because now that you've figured out how to delegate for more time, freedom, and success, you have more time for fun.

00:28:36:07 - 00:28:38:12
Kevin Eikenberry
What do you spend on some of that time on.

00:28:38:14 - 00:29:03:14
Dave Kerpen
I do I play tennis twice a week. I, play poker. well, I host a poker game. once a week. and I watch a lot of baseball. Both, both with my son and watching my son play and then watching, the Mets. sadly. Well, once in a while, happily and too often, sadly. But it's still fun along the way.

00:29:03:16 - 00:29:06:22
Dave Kerpen
and then I do date night with my wife every week as well.

00:29:07:00 - 00:29:15:02
Kevin Eikenberry
Perfect. the only thing you knew for sure I was going to ask you is, what are you reading? so what's something you're reading now or you've read recently? Dave?

00:29:15:03 - 00:29:26:06
Dave Kerpen
So I'm a huge Adam Grant fan. I've read, all of his books and, hidden potential. His latest is, what I'm devouring right now, and, And I just love it. It's so inspiring.

00:29:26:08 - 00:29:43:23
Kevin Eikenberry
He is fantastic. And that book is wonderful. And that, along with some others that have been mentioned in the show, including traction, will be in the show notes. And of course, in the show notes. We will also have information about this book. Get over yourself. I'll ask you this, Dave, where do you want to point people?

00:29:44:03 - 00:29:49:20
Kevin Eikenberry
Where can they learn more about what you're up to? Get connected with you? Like where do you want to send people?

00:29:49:22 - 00:30:06:17
Dave Kerpen
So, so many options. one of my personal, core values is responsiveness. So anyone that reaches out to me on social media with my name, Dave Kerman, I'm happy to to answer your question, I also do, open office hours every Thursday afternoon. anyone in the world that wants to chat with me and get some free coaching?

00:30:06:19 - 00:30:30:16
Dave Kerpen
absolutely no strings attached. I've been doing this for, 11 years now. and I've and I've met with over 850 people. they can go to schedule. dave.com. if folks want to learn more about apprentice, which is our firm that connects, leaders to college students to talk college talent, to do work that you can delegate you you can check that out at choose apprentice.com.

00:30:30:17 - 00:30:36:00
Dave Kerpen
and of course, all my books, including Get Over Yourself, are available on Amazon and bookstores everywhere.

00:30:36:02 - 00:30:38:16
Kevin Eikenberry
And you can go to get over yourself book.com. Right? That's right.

00:30:38:16 - 00:30:39:19
Dave Kerpen
I didn't even think of that.

00:30:40:01 - 00:30:55:16
Kevin Eikenberry
That's all that I put in that that's the one that I put in the lower thirds. so listen, before we go, everybody, I have a question for all of you who are watching or listening, and it's a question I ask you every week. And the question is, now what? What are you going to do with this?

00:30:55:16 - 00:31:29:14
Kevin Eikenberry
Maybe you you realize, hey, I need to I need to get over myself and think a little bit more about why it is that I'm not delegating or why have I stopped because I had a bad experience? Or, who who do I need to be choosing now for this next project or this next thing I need to delegate whatever it is like you need to go back and think about what you got in terms of what actions you will take, because it's only then that this will ultimately make a difference for you in your work to give you, as Dave says, more time, more freedom, more success.

00:31:29:20 - 00:31:54:21
Kevin Eikenberry
I would add more satisfaction. And so it's it's my hope that you will do that, because when you do, the time that you've just invested with Dave and I will be far more valuable than it would be otherwise. Dave, thanks so much, as always, for the time, glad to have the chance to visit with you again and to share some of the thoughts about this really, really important topic that sometimes people really do get stuck on.

00:31:54:23 - 00:32:14:17
Kevin Eikenberry
And so, all of you that are here, if you found this valuable, invite someone else to come join and listen into this episode, or to just subscribe so that you don't miss any future episode. You know how to do that wherever you're watching or listening. Subscribe so you don't miss any in the future. Because we're here every week with another episode of the Remarkable Leadership Podcast.

00:32:14:20 - 00:32:15:08
Kevin Eikenberry
Thanks everyone.