The Remarkable Leadership Podcast

00:00:08:07 - 00:00:34:20
Kevin Eikenberry
Human beings are wonderful and messy and unpredictable, and while we're all humans, we're really not all the same, are we? We are different in so many ways. And yet, as leaders, we must lead all of those different folks, even if they are really different from us. And that's our focus today. How to lead people who are not like us.

00:00:34:22 - 00:01:00:08
Kevin Eikenberry
Welcome to another episode of the Remarkable Leadership Podcast, where we are helping leaders like you grow personally and professionally to lead more effectively and make a bigger difference for their teams, organizations and the world. If you are listening to this podcast in the future, you could join us live on your favorite social media platform and so to find out when those are happening in this case, you have been here two months sooner.

00:01:00:10 - 00:01:17:20
Kevin Eikenberry
If you're watching this when this first comes out, listen to us when it first comes out. So you want to find out how to join us live. You can join join one of two groups, one on Facebook and one on LinkedIn, to get all the information about when we're going live, how you can join us, and why you'd want to join us early.

00:01:17:22 - 00:01:48:02
Kevin Eikenberry
And you can do that by going to Remarkable Podcast Academy, Facebook, or Remarkable podcast.com/linkedin to get all of that info and to sign up to join us there. Today's episode is brought to you by my latest book, Flexible Leadership Navigate Uncertainty and Lead with Confidence. It is time to realize that styles get in our way, can get in our way, and that following our strengths might not always be the best approach in a world more complex and uncertain than ever.

00:01:48:04 - 00:02:12:19
Kevin Eikenberry
Leaders need a new perspective, a new set of tools to create the great results that our organizations and team team members need. And that's what flexible leadership provides you. Learn more or your copy today at remarkable podcast.com/flexible. And so with that let me bring in my lovely and talented guest. And let me tell you a little bit about Stephanie Chung.

00:02:12:23 - 00:02:39:00
Kevin Eikenberry
She is the author of Ally Leadership How to Lead People Who Are Not Like You. And she is the first African-American president of a private aviation company under her leadership. Her sales team consistently exceeded their nearly $1 billion annual sales quota, with over 30 years of experience. She is a powerhouse in driving business growth and success. She's an author.

00:02:39:02 - 00:02:44:03
Kevin Eikenberry
She's our guest today on the Remarkable Leadership Podcast. Stephanie, welcome.

00:02:44:04 - 00:02:49:00
Stephanie Chung
Thank you very much, Kevin. I'm excited to be here. And thank you for that nice intro, by the way.

00:02:49:02 - 00:03:08:20
Kevin Eikenberry
Well, your mother wrote it, so, okay, so here's the book everybody we're going to talk about. So, I mentioned to you before we hit the record button before we went live, I, mentioned to you that it's one of the shortest, intros I've ever received from a guest. And, so why don't you fill in the fill color?

00:03:09:01 - 00:03:20:10
Kevin Eikenberry
Color us in a little bit more. Tell us a little bit more about the journey that gets you here, and then ultimately to the book. But let's just talk a little bit. Give us a little bit about your journey first and then we'll talk about the book.

00:03:20:12 - 00:03:40:11
Stephanie Chung
Absolutely. So thank you for that. So, let's always start I always start where the credit is due, which is I grew up a military child, so my dad was a master sergeant, the US Air Force. So I am a military brat. And I want to shout out to all military children because April is Military Child Month. So shout out to every single military child out there.

00:03:40:11 - 00:03:58:07
Stephanie Chung
And of course all the men and women in our armed armed forces. But I started off, you know, living on an active Air Force basis. I was that kid, Kevin, that moved every two years of my life. So I was just always happy to be the new kid, the person who always had to make friends. And you can the class, you can the neighborhood, etc..

00:03:58:09 - 00:04:16:05
Stephanie Chung
But early on, I knew I wanted to be an aviation just because I grew up listening to planes take off and land every single day in my life. So that part was easy. What was, my very first job was parking planes and loading luggage at the Boston Logan Airport. That was my very first job. And, that in the aviation.

00:04:16:05 - 00:04:18:16
Kevin Eikenberry
You got the flashlight? I got the ladder.

00:04:18:17 - 00:04:37:03
Stephanie Chung
I can still park a plane. Just so you know. Cabin. All right? I can still park a flight. So started off there. I also worked at the ticket counter, and, one day, one of the VP of sales for this major airline that I worked for, he came through the airport and he said, you know, step every time I see you, I see you checking customers.

00:04:37:03 - 00:04:56:21
Stephanie Chung
And with the smile on your face, I think we have you in the wrong position. I think you should be in sales. And so that then kind of pivoted my journey. So I originally up to that point, Kevin, I was going into the operations route, but once he said that I didn't know him that well, but I respected him just because of who he was and his title, etc. so they moved me into sales.

00:04:56:21 - 00:05:17:01
Stephanie Chung
So I sold for the airlines for many, many years. And then from there I got recruited into private aviation where I sold, you know, private aviation, jets and planes and all that stuff. And then eventually I got promoted, oversaw the team that, sold the private aviation services, then got promoted. Recruited into becoming a president.

00:05:17:01 - 00:05:34:12
Stephanie Chung
So that was one of the things that you referenced. So I became the first, African-American president of, in the United States, leading a major private jet company from there, then got recruited into another company, which was larger. And I was part of the executive team that helped take that company public. And so it's just been an amazing journey.

00:05:34:12 - 00:05:58:09
Stephanie Chung
So I did that and then eventually just, you know, wrote a book, and now I'm on the speaking circuit and really sharing with people the things that I've learned throughout my 40 years in, and in the workforce, but specifically in aviation, because it's, it's, you know, that's where your mind grows, right? Travel, I believe, is one of the biggest ways to expand your thought process and expand, really just your, your mind in general.

00:05:58:14 - 00:06:08:16
Stephanie Chung
And so I've been really fortunate and blessed to be in an amazing industry. But now I serve on boards. I'm on the speaking circuit. And of course, as you mentioned, I've written a book as well.

00:06:08:18 - 00:06:29:01
Kevin Eikenberry
So yeah, if you're going to, if you're going to, have, a speaking business, you probably like to have a book. And so that's a reason to write the book. But I'm curious specifically why this book? Why is this, the topic that we're going to talk about today, why has it become the focal point of your work?

00:06:29:03 - 00:06:45:01
Stephanie Chung
Yes. It's such a it's a big passion of mine. And you're right. You know, when I was, you know, in my speaking, my speaker journey, my speaker's bureau had said, you know, you should write a book because you get off saying to people like, hey, did you have a book? Which at that time I did not write, and I really didn't have a desire to write a book.

00:06:45:01 - 00:07:01:10
Stephanie Chung
But then I really spent and I also didn't have the time because I was still a working executive for, you know, publicly held companies. I didn't have the time that it takes to write a book, as you well know. But then as my schedule started to sort itself out and I really spent some time, alone, and I'm a woman of faith.

00:07:01:10 - 00:07:16:11
Stephanie Chung
So I spent a lot of time in prayer about, you know, if I was to write a book. What book would I be able to write that could really add some value, to people in the world. And this is this book I am super passionate about. Obviously, I think where we are in the world, this book is really needed.

00:07:16:11 - 00:07:44:07
Stephanie Chung
But certainly I didn't know that 18 months ago. Right. So the book itself, ally leadership how to lead people who are not like you. Ally is an acronym and it stands for ask, listen, learn. You take action. And so that is you know for all leaders, this is the this is the secret sauce. And I believe with everything that's going on in today's workforce, we as leaders have to know how to lead everybody, every race, every creed, every, you know, gender, right?

00:07:44:07 - 00:08:05:05
Stephanie Chung
I say we have to know how to lead all God's children. And if you think about the workforce that we're dealing with, you know, today, in today's society, we've got six generations that work. Seven, which is unheard of. That's never happened in our history. So we've got all the intergenerational stuff, and you and I both know Zoomers do not think and work the same as boomers, let's say, as an example.

00:08:05:05 - 00:08:26:08
Stephanie Chung
So every leader is dealing with all the different generations at work. The second part of the scenario we're, working through is women are the majority of the population. So women being, you know, that changes the dynamics in the workforce because we see things differently, we communicate differently. And then you take the demographics. So all the ethnic demographics are growing non ethnic demographic shrinking.

00:08:26:13 - 00:08:51:15
Stephanie Chung
That changes the dynamics in the workforce in the workforce as well as you have people with neurodiversity, people at different abled body folks. We have the LGBTQ plus community. So as leaders we've got a whole lot of people that are not like each other and they're not like us and we're not like them. And so, however, in order for you to really level up your leadership, you're going to have to know how to lead today's workforce.

00:08:51:21 - 00:09:10:08
Stephanie Chung
And that's what this book is all about. It's not putting any shame towards anybody. It's something for all of us. And I'll be honest with you too, Kevin. What I found out there was a lot of books towards white men telling white men how to lead women and people of color. And I'm like, this conversation needs to go deeper and wider.

00:09:10:08 - 00:09:23:11
Stephanie Chung
It is for all leaders to know how to lead all people in today's day and age, because that's what's going to give you the competitive advantage to get the types of results that you require. As a leader.

00:09:23:13 - 00:09:41:17
Kevin Eikenberry
So we're going to talk about the four. You said them briefly, an ally, ask, listen, learn. And you make the take the action. We're gonna talk about that in a second. But I want to start here. And you've really you've really answered it largely here. But I love well, I love a good acronym, everybody. First of all, from a learning perspective, it's good.

00:09:41:17 - 00:09:59:04
Kevin Eikenberry
From a marketing perspective, it's good. I love a good acronym. And none are better than this because it's not just the acronym that we can remember, but it it's it's the idea of being an ally. And so I'm curious, number one is if you if you chose that on purpose or if you just said, hey, I got a word here.

00:09:59:06 - 00:10:17:11
Kevin Eikenberry
I got four letters, I got em, I'm going to put them together. But I love that that before we unpack, ally, that what you're saying is for us to do the kind of things that you're talking about, the kind of results that we hope to get, that we really need to be allies with those that we lead.

00:10:17:11 - 00:10:22:08
Kevin Eikenberry
So anything you want to say there before we start to unpack the. Yeah, a little bit more?

00:10:22:13 - 00:10:42:11
Stephanie Chung
Well, you know, that's such a good question. No one's ever asked me that question before. And what I like about it is, yes, I could have named the book allyship. Right. You know how to lead people who are not like you, but I didn't I didn't want I is very intentional not to do that, because then what happens is people then start to assume it's a book for you know, a Dei book, right?

00:10:42:16 - 00:11:00:21
Stephanie Chung
And it really isn't. It's a leadership book. And so what I'm basically saying the leaders is, here's the four things that you need to be able to master in order to be able to lead effectively and especially lead those people who are not like you, which is pretty much, you know, should be everybody at this, at this. If it's not, if you don't have a workforce, it's not like you.

00:11:00:21 - 00:11:17:17
Stephanie Chung
You will just because the world is changing so quickly. Right? So so yes, I appreciate that. Yeah, I really appreciate that question. But for me, when I looked at, you know, what am I trying to convey? What I really want leaders to know if you do these four simple things, this is what's helped me get to the highest level, and I believe it can help them as well.

00:11:17:21 - 00:11:34:01
Stephanie Chung
And though it sounds super simple, as you know, I dive into the book because it's not that simple, right? It's not as easy as oh yeah, just ask. No, no, you got to ask. You listen, listen. Gotta learn and then you have to take action. Right. So those four have to come together. It can't be. I'm doing one of the three.

00:11:34:03 - 00:11:48:16
Kevin Eikenberry
So let's, let's, let's talk about it a little bit. Actually, I want to, throughout the book, you have all sorts of stories. Right? And, one of the stories that I liked the most, is tell me.

00:11:48:16 - 00:11:49:23
Stephanie Chung
I can't wait to hear it.

00:11:50:04 - 00:12:07:18
Kevin Eikenberry
You call it the damsel in distress. And after you tell a little bit about this story, I'll tell you why I picked this story. But can you just. I want you to tell the story to get, because then we'll we'll use that it to unpack the other ideas. But tell us about the damsel in distress.

00:12:07:20 - 00:12:27:22
Stephanie Chung
Well, you know what? So for all of the listeners, the damsel in distress, it's a story. You know, it's funny that you say that because a lot of people love that story. Like people. I think a lot of leaders, it resonated with them because so often we it's almost a taboo subject to talk about. You know, a lot of times, employees can talk about how they don't like their leaders, right?

00:12:28:00 - 00:12:34:23
Stephanie Chung
So many leaders never get a chance to talk about how there's somebody that we are like either. Right. And so what I wanted to do.

00:12:35:00 - 00:12:38:22
Kevin Eikenberry
Is where she starts, by the way, I had this person on my team and I didn't like her. I didn't.

00:12:38:22 - 00:12:55:09
Stephanie Chung
Like her. Right. She drove me crazy. You know, I think I use the word bonkers in the book, but, but I believe, you know, if we're having an honest conversation. Kevin, every leader can relate to that. Every single one of us have had someone on the team where we're like, oh, you know, this one stretches me, right?

00:12:55:14 - 00:13:14:01
Stephanie Chung
And so that's what this story was about. And I showed my vulnerability, how, you know, just I would avoid try to have meetings with her because every time, you know, I was around her, it just was she was so dramatic. It drove me crazy. There was always something with this particular person. But what I realize is this isn't for her.

00:13:14:01 - 00:13:28:06
Stephanie Chung
You know, for her. There was a lot of series of events, and though I won't go through all the details, but definitely read this part of the book because there was a series of things that she was doing that just was going from bad to worse, and I and I could have done the easy thing, which is chalk it up.

00:13:28:06 - 00:13:31:15
Stephanie Chung
As you know, she's not a fit. And let's keep this ball moving.

00:13:31:16 - 00:13:31:20
Kevin Eikenberry
And.

00:13:31:20 - 00:13:54:20
Stephanie Chung
Move her out of here. Or I could really look at myself in my leadership and figure out where did I need to adjust. I mean, after all, I'm the leader, and that's what I chose to do is, you know, in the book. And once I spent some time getting to really know her, asking, listening, learning. Then I realized some things about her life that made complete sense as to why she was, how she was.

00:13:54:22 - 00:14:13:18
Stephanie Chung
And once I understood that, though it was different than me, I knew now, okay, now I know what I'm working with and I can make the proper adjustments so that I can actually help her win on this team. Because if she wins, I win as well, right? So that, that was really the the premise for why I wrote that particular book.

00:14:13:18 - 00:14:21:23
Stephanie Chung
I wanted to hit a taboo subject that none of us ever talk about, which is sometimes as leaders, we have people on our team that we don't like. And how do you address that?

00:14:22:01 - 00:14:35:20
Kevin Eikenberry
And and at the end of the day, we don't I mean, I always say this to folks about, you know, you don't have to usually with leaders you're talking about this about they've got two team members that don't like each other. Like, I don't care if they don't. They don't have to be pals.

00:14:35:23 - 00:14:36:13
Stephanie Chung
That's what we have.

00:14:36:13 - 00:14:56:08
Kevin Eikenberry
To we have to get business results. Right. And the same is true for us as the boss. I don't have to be best pals. I don't have to really like that person. But we have to have the kind of working relationship that allows us to get great results together. And what I really like about the story is not just that you didn't like her to start with.

00:14:56:08 - 00:15:11:19
Kevin Eikenberry
Oh, that's a useful place to start, and I'm glad. And I was pretty confident. That's why it was in the book. What I like is that you took the time, you worked in the airline, so this was easier to say. I flew in, I believe she lived in Nashville. I flew to Nashville to have lunch with her.

00:15:11:19 - 00:15:32:08
Kevin Eikenberry
So I want you, everyone, to think about this. She probably has this other person. I probably has some clue that, yeah, things with the boss are not Rosie, and the boss is flying to see me and meeting at this restaurant, and she was probably highly stressed. Yes. And what you did when you got there was you acknowledge that you said, hey, that's not all of the things you've made up in your head or not.

00:15:32:08 - 00:15:33:04
Kevin Eikenberry
Why I'm here.

00:15:33:06 - 00:15:34:04
Stephanie Chung
Right.

00:15:34:06 - 00:15:54:08
Kevin Eikenberry
And then you spent the entire conversation about her. And that's the part I like about the story, is that when we think about people not like us, we we think about all of the things you said before, demographics and all that stuff. And in terms of her, she had she was in, in rough, rough terms your age.

00:15:54:11 - 00:16:14:05
Kevin Eikenberry
She was the same gender as you. And so some of the things that people might be saying are the things that are different actually weren't right. And, and so and yet barriers can get in the way. And what you didn't then did was you made it. You you spent the time to get to know her better. You meant you didn't just go to have a coaching session with her.

00:16:14:09 - 00:16:27:18
Kevin Eikenberry
You went to get to know her, which gave you the perspective, as you said, to then come back. You, you. It's hard to be an ally with someone that you don't like, but it's harder to be an ally with someone that you don't understand.

00:16:27:23 - 00:16:28:14
Stephanie Chung
Yes.

00:16:28:19 - 00:16:44:21
Kevin Eikenberry
And you got to the place of understanding her. You didn't say if you became friends and you were invited to her wedding ring stuff. That's not that isn't the point of the story. But the point is, you got to the place where you could be the leader she needed so she could be successful.

00:16:44:22 - 00:17:02:02
Stephanie Chung
Absolutely, yes. Thank you for saying that. That's so well said. And that's that's exactly what I want people to get out of that story is. And you know what's really interesting, Kevin? One of the reasons why I put that story in there is because I made a social post about, you know, what happens when you have someone on your team that you don't like.

00:17:02:02 - 00:17:19:00
Stephanie Chung
And it went viral. So I knew I was on to something because it's the taboo thing we never talk about. Right. And and so but, you know, at the end of the day, I knew that every leader, either they've dealt with it or they will deal with it, especially again with all the different changes that we're we're working with now.

00:17:19:02 - 00:17:32:10
Stephanie Chung
And this is a very common question that I get because we have all the different generations working. So most of the generations that are in the leadership positions are like your, you know, me and you. There are age, right? The boomers, the Gen X and, and and whatnot.

00:17:32:13 - 00:17:36:21
Kevin Eikenberry
And they're we're not here to talk about my age. Definitely. They're,

00:17:36:23 - 00:18:01:04
Stephanie Chung
But you're looking good, Kevin. Looking good. But, you know, sometimes they're struggling with. How do I lead, you know, this generation and they have a different, you know, they work, you know, process and so on and so forth, and so we're all dealing with something. But my point of that was to just to use my example, and be very vulnerable on, hey, here's how I did it, because I didn't expect her to or just at first, I needed to adjust.

00:18:01:04 - 00:18:13:11
Stephanie Chung
I needed to understand, and I needed to put myself in a place of being able to ask and listen and learn and not just assume, because that's where I was functioning up until that point, so that I could truly help her get to that next level.

00:18:13:13 - 00:18:43:23
Kevin Eikenberry
So you've said that multiple times. Ask, listen, learn. We'll get to the why in a second. Yeah. And and you did say, well, those are pretty I mean, there's nothing earth shattering, right? In terms of deciding that as a leader, I'm going to really ask. I'm going to listen. I'm going to learn. But about what? Give us a little more context here, because those things would be true for any number of things for us as leaders, but specifically in this conversation about leading people who are not like us.

00:18:44:01 - 00:18:49:13
Kevin Eikenberry
What what are you what what's your specific advice around? Ask, listen and learn. Where should our focus be? Here.

00:18:49:15 - 00:19:09:06
Stephanie Chung
Well, you know, since you like acronyms, I'm going to go one step further. Right. So there is an acronym which is earn. So you have to earn the right to be considered an ally. A lot of times people just throw the ally, you know, I'm an ally, you know, and it's like, okay, help me understand that based on what, you know, and the reason why this is important.

00:19:09:06 - 00:19:28:15
Stephanie Chung
So let me give you the acronym, you know, for earn. Earn stands for the E, you have to establish an environment where people feel psychologically safe enough to be able to voice their opinion. Right. Which may or may not agree with you later, but you've got to create that environment where they feel safe enough to be able to voice their opinion.

00:19:28:17 - 00:19:49:02
Stephanie Chung
The A stands for assure alignment, and the reason why that's super important is because the left hand has to know what the right hands doing. And I have always been a believer that, you know, part of the ways that you create a successful team or a successful business is to make sure that everybody in the business understands the business that they're in.

00:19:49:04 - 00:20:06:11
Stephanie Chung
Leaders would be shocked to know that most of your people don't know the business you're actually in. So I'll come back to that because I can go a deep dive on that. And then we have our rally. The troops. You get a bunch of people that feel safe enough to voice their opinion, you know, whether they agree or disagree with you.

00:20:06:13 - 00:20:28:04
Stephanie Chung
And the left hand knows what the right hands do, and they know what business they're in. How does it you know, how does what they do contribute to the overall business of of what the companies. Therefore, then you now rally the troops on a common cause. You have an unstoppable, unstoppable team. I could literally stop right there. But then the in because I'm in navigation or I'm in aviation is all about how do you navigate the narrows.

00:20:28:09 - 00:20:43:07
Stephanie Chung
So you have to know when are we trying to get to wherever we're trying to get to by when and how are we going to get there. Right. So and I'll use the example on an aviation, a pilot would never get into the aircraft and not know where they're going. Right. It doesn't work that way. Where are we going.

00:20:43:07 - 00:20:49:06
Stephanie Chung
How do I get there? How much fuel do I need? What route am I taking? Like when do I need. But when, you know, be there by when?

00:20:49:08 - 00:21:02:15
Kevin Eikenberry
Have you ever been on the plane when the pilot says that, another spot. And they're doing it as a joke. And sometimes that was where they just came from. Yeah. And you're like. And you're everyone on the plane, there's this, really? They realize that they. Exactly.

00:21:02:20 - 00:21:09:20
Stephanie Chung
Could you imagine being at the boarding gate? Right. And the person's like, okay, you know, hey, come on onto this flight. We don't know we're going, but you know what? Take a seat.

00:21:09:23 - 00:21:16:09
Kevin Eikenberry
We're going to take a poll and decide where to go. He's going to rule here, right? I wouldn't run out of fuel to go there.

00:21:16:13 - 00:21:39:01
Stephanie Chung
That's right. Exactly. So? So that's the IRN acronym for how you become an ally. Now, to answer your question, what are some of the things that you can do to even ask and go a little bit further? I'll give you an example of something that I used to do a ton, especially when I was leading sales teams. But even when I was leading companies, you know, the best thing that a leader can do is to show their vulnerability.

00:21:39:03 - 00:21:55:12
Stephanie Chung
Now, I don't mean to learn all your dirty laundry from home. I mean, like just showing that you don't have all the answers. So for an example, you know, the times I was leading sales teams, maybe it was here's the new numbers that we have to do. Maybe it's, you know, astronomical jump. Right. And I already know the sales team is going to be John.

00:21:55:12 - 00:22:10:03
Stephanie Chung
Like what? You know. So what I would do is, you know, sit with the team and say, okay, guys, listen, we just had a board meeting. You know, we've done, the numbers and whatnot. And so here's what we have to bring in this year. And it's always going to be an increase. No matter what's going on in the world.

00:22:10:03 - 00:22:26:10
Stephanie Chung
It's always going to be an increase. Right. And then I'd say, now I could really use your help on how you suggest we get there. And then you just let the team go for it. Right. Again, it's got to earn the environment where they can be feel safe enough to say, well, you know, I think we should do this or I think we should do that.

00:22:26:14 - 00:22:44:17
Stephanie Chung
And so they've got a hundred ideas out there. Now, as leaders, we know most of those ideas probably won't fly right. But that's not the time to kill the idea. Right now I'm asking for all ideas. And so they're throwing it up there on the whiteboard. Now there's a lot of ideas. And now at that point, my next comeback is going to be guys.

00:22:44:17 - 00:23:00:20
Stephanie Chung
Great. Thank you so much. These are really, really some good stuff here. We can't do everything. So if we were just to pick our top seven what do you guys think that should be. And then let them hash it out again. Because now people have to defend their decisions or defend their ideas. Right. Let them hash it out.

00:23:00:20 - 00:23:22:05
Stephanie Chung
Again. I'm not squashing the ideas, even though I know kind of which ones may or may not fly right, but I'm letting it all come out from there now. It's like, okay, great. So here's the seven. Now how do we figure out, you know, we're going to do by win, right? I got to navigate this whole thing. And so at the end of the day, what I'm doing is I'm allowing them to come up with the solution to the problem.

00:23:22:07 - 00:23:40:05
Stephanie Chung
But I first have to get them in a place where they understand what the problem is. So the I always, as a leader was completely, it was it was a non-negotiable for me. I will not have an ignorant team. This team has to know what business ran, how what the business. How does the business make money. Right.

00:23:40:05 - 00:24:04:22
Stephanie Chung
And then also, how does what they do contribute to what we do? So whenever I've like companies I was big on walk a miles. Everybody in the company had to walk a mile in somebody else's shoes. So I've got pilots in town and they're, you know, learning, they're there for their recurrent training. I also want them to come in to headquarters and now go sit and listen to, you know, maybe a customer service person who has to make a reservation, right.

00:24:04:23 - 00:24:21:16
Stephanie Chung
Because because now you get to understand how the business works. It's not just about you flying the plane. It's all the things that lead up to you being able to get on the plane and fly it right. And so I need everybody to know how it all works. Again, I encourage leaders. You do something as simple as that.

00:24:21:16 - 00:24:33:20
Stephanie Chung
And by the way I would have my board do it. You guys sit there and listen to you know why? Because if I'm asking the board for more money to upgrade the IT system and they want to go now, it's like, well, you know what? How about you just sit here and listen to how how we have to do this?

00:24:33:20 - 00:24:42:22
Stephanie Chung
What all we have to do, all the steps we've got to take in order to actually book a trip, right. Then all of a sudden they're like, oh my God, you need an updated system. I do, you're right.

00:24:43:03 - 00:24:47:07
Kevin Eikenberry
It's really thin. Yeah. You know, you go through your budget for that is right here.

00:24:47:09 - 00:24:50:11
Stephanie Chung
That's why.

00:24:50:13 - 00:25:11:02
Kevin Eikenberry
So is there's the and I deal with this in every one of these episodes is a bit of inside baseball for everyone. There's so many things that I could ask a guest. And, and obviously we're only touching the surface of what's in this book. Ally leadership how to Lead People Who Are Not Like You, by Stephanie Chung.

00:25:11:02 - 00:25:22:00
Kevin Eikenberry
There it is. If you're watching. So before we start to wrap up, is there anything that you wish I had asked that I didn't?

00:25:22:02 - 00:25:45:11
Stephanie Chung
Well, you know, one of the things that I just want to kind of, you know, I guess drive home a little bit is the one thing that I it's thing I think tends to happen a lot these days is people are self anointing themselves as an ally. So we'll go back to, you know, me speaking. So I speak on this circuit and a lot of times will happen after I'm done speaking as people will come up and let's just we'll use men and women as an example.

00:25:45:11 - 00:26:01:08
Stephanie Chung
So men may come up and say, oh my gosh, Steph, I love this. I'm an ally to women. I'm a big ally. I've got, you know, I'm married to the same woman. I've got four daughters. I'm a girl, dad. I'm an ally. And though I love that Kevin, my comeback is always the same. I'm like, that's fantastic. We need allies.

00:26:01:08 - 00:26:20:13
Stephanie Chung
This is great. Tell me what you've done this week to show your allyship towards women. And usually it's crickets. They can't give me actually any details. So what I would encourage for leaders is in order. You can't self anoint yourself to be an ally, right? I can't say, well, you know what? I'm I'm a nice person. I can't say that.

00:26:20:13 - 00:26:42:15
Stephanie Chung
It's you could say I met Stephanie and I think she's a really nice person, but I can't self anoint myself as a nice person. So what I really want leaders to realize is that, you know, in order to be an ally, you have somebody else has to call you an ally. You can't just decide that. And especially if you don't have any real facts and figures and data points to back up the comment.

00:26:42:16 - 00:26:56:02
Stephanie Chung
And so that's really what I want leaders to know. And that's where ask less and learn. You know you take action comes into play. Because if you're an ally you actually don't have to tell people they can see it for themselves because they.

00:26:56:04 - 00:26:58:01
Kevin Eikenberry
They're deciding you're not there to.

00:26:58:01 - 00:27:10:08
Stephanie Chung
Say exactly. They see you take action. So that's that's another thing I really want leaders to realize is that, you know, you can't just decide you're an ally. You have to have the receipts to back up the comment.

00:27:10:10 - 00:27:28:18
Kevin Eikenberry
I love that. So, is there well, I'll just go here. As we start this to finish, I'm curious, it's very clear that you have loved your career and you've loved the work that you've done, and you love the work you're doing now. But what do you do for fun?

00:27:28:19 - 00:27:47:20
Stephanie Chung
I'm a big self-care person because I travel so much. So my fun is all about how do I decompress? So, on Sundays, I, you know, even, sorry, Sundays, but Sundays, I usually once a month. I'm sorry. Every other week, I'll do a two hour massage. Thai massage. So it's not relaxing just.

00:27:47:22 - 00:27:48:10
Kevin Eikenberry
To get all the.

00:27:48:10 - 00:28:05:06
Stephanie Chung
Kinks out of my body from sitting in a plane so much. So that's one way that I do self-care. I'm big into just kind of my own alone time, whether it's reading a book or just, you know, listening to praise and worship music or, or, you know, really just studying, more about my faith or what have you, so that's important to me.

00:28:05:09 - 00:28:34:04
Stephanie Chung
And then really just being around friends, you know, this is something I'm actually focused on this year is spending more time with my girlfriends and actually going out and, and, you know, people that I don't get to spend a whole lot of time with so continually building that part as well. And then my last piece, I just did this, this past Sunday is, you know, one of the things that I kind of try to convey in the book is for every one of us to, to get to know people that are not like us, you know, a lot of times what will happen, Kevin, is people will ask, well, how do I do that?

00:28:34:09 - 00:28:51:15
Stephanie Chung
It's like, you know, I don't complicate this. Do not make this complicated. I really want this book to stress to everyone. You do not need a degree from the MIT to figure this out. It is super simple. Your five year old student every day, right? So one of the ways that you can do it is just get yourself out of your environment and go into somebody else's environment.

00:28:51:17 - 00:29:20:04
Stephanie Chung
So this Sunday I went to there's a place that I live in Dallas, so there's a place that it's, the Dallas Buddhist Temple. Place. Beautiful botanical gardens. There's monks walking around. It's incredibly peaceful, but they also have food that's being cooked by people in the community. The Thai community. And all the proceeds go back to, to help the monks and what, you know, whatever it is that they're doing, and they're from there, you know, nonprofit perspective.

00:29:20:06 - 00:29:38:16
Stephanie Chung
The food was amazing. I got to go have authentic Thai food, talk to different people that, you know, we're not of the same background and culture of myself. Sit there and look at their beautiful botanical gardens. So what I want leaders to know is this isn't complicated. The biggest thing you're not going to learn about other people reading about it, that's a good start.

00:29:38:16 - 00:30:07:15
Stephanie Chung
But you really need to go, go, go travel somewhere. Go, you know, to a local, you know, area that, every single, every single community that's not like you has an arts center or a culture center, or, if nothing else, restaurants, right? Immerse yourself into other environments. And that's going to help you, because by default you're going to ask and you're going to listen and you're going to learn, and then that's going to help you be a much better leader, to be able to lead today's modern workforce.

00:30:07:17 - 00:30:13:10
Kevin Eikenberry
So you mentioned it as one of the things that you do for fun is reading. So what are you reading these days?

00:30:13:12 - 00:30:31:20
Stephanie Chung
I'm actually reading two, two books. It's funny. One is, a friend of mine wrote a book and her book is called hers for the taking. Her. Her name is Tracy Newell, and the book is called hers for the taking. And it's really a book about helping women, get into boards, or C-suite or boards. And so I'm super passionate about that.

00:30:31:22 - 00:30:58:09
Stephanie Chung
And so I love Tracy's book, so I'm reading it now. It just came out another thing that I'm actually reading, I just spoke at, John Maxwell's leadership conference, and, he gifted me a, Maxwell leadership Bible. And so I read the Bible, and I read the Bible, but this is I really love in this particular Bible because it takes each of the different verses and then sums it up from a leadership perspective, like to help give us guidance as how to be better leaders, right, based on, biblical principles.

00:30:58:09 - 00:31:08:13
Stephanie Chung
And so that's another book that I really, really, really love. And it's a beautiful Bible, but it's like it takes it's just a different perspective that I'm really enjoying.

00:31:08:15 - 00:31:20:14
Kevin Eikenberry
We'll have links to both of those books, as we always do in the show notes, but we'll also have links to Stephanie's book. But Stephanie, where do you want to point people? How can they get to know more about you and your work?

00:31:20:16 - 00:31:37:18
Stephanie Chung
Probably the easiest place is just go to Stephanie Transcom. That has all my links to all my socials. If you'd like to link up with me. I'm I'm on every social channel. And then also, if you really if you're a leader who wants to continue to learn more, I've got a weekly newsletter that goes out under your ally and leadership.

00:31:37:20 - 00:31:53:21
Stephanie Chung
So your allies in leadership.com. And there it is about basically science based, you know, how do you lead and succeed based on science. And so it's very, neuroscience driven and it's probably some of my best work. So those are the two places I would tell people to go.

00:31:53:23 - 00:32:12:01
Kevin Eikenberry
There you go. You can get it all by starting at Stephanie chung.com. And so now before we go, the question that I ask all of you listeners and viewers, every single episode is this. Now what? Now what what are you going to do now? Now that that could be well, I'm going to go order a book. That's fine.

00:32:12:01 - 00:32:27:13
Kevin Eikenberry
If you do that every week and you're reading, then you're starting to read almost as much as Kevin. But that's not really what I'm saying here, even though I do hope that you order a copy of the book, the real question is, what did you take from this situation, from this conversation that you want to go do something with?

00:32:27:15 - 00:32:54:02
Kevin Eikenberry
Right. The why in life is you take action. What action will you take? What insight did you get from this? What did you underline mentally as we were going through it and answer this question? And now what? Now that I learned this from Stephanie, what action will I take when you answer, when you ask and answer that question, then the last 30 minutes have been will have been a great investment for you, which is what I hope it is for you every single week.

00:32:54:02 - 00:32:56:19
Kevin Eikenberry
So Stephanie, thank you so much for being here. It was a pleasure to have you.

00:32:56:21 - 00:32:59:14
Stephanie Chung
Thank you so much for having me, Kevin. This was fun.

00:32:59:16 - 00:33:14:03
Kevin Eikenberry
And everybody, if you thought it was fun like Stephanie did, then make sure you tell someone else. So they come and listen and make sure that both they and you are subscribed wherever you're watching, you're listening to from so you don't miss any episodes of the Remarkable leadership.