The Remarkable Leadership Podcast

00:00:08:12 - 00:00:34:18
Kevin Eikenberry
There are roadblocks in the way of most any kind of progress. If we are thinking about our progress and effectiveness as a leader, one of those roadblocks are things we can't even see. In other words, our blind spots. Today we're talking about what we can't see are blind spots, and how we can better understand them and overcome them on our path to greater success.

00:00:34:20 - 00:01:00:12
Kevin Eikenberry
Welcome to another episode of the Remarkable Leadership Podcast, where where we are helping leaders grow personally and professionally to lead more effectively and make a bigger, positive difference for their teams, organizations and the world. If you are listening to this podcast, you could join us live in the future on your favorite social platform. You can find out when those live episodes are happening and therefore get connected.

00:01:00:15 - 00:01:32:21
Kevin Eikenberry
Get access to this information sooner. You can join our groups on either Facebook or LinkedIn as a way to do that. Just go to remarkable podcast.com/facebook or remarkable podcast.com/linkedin. That's how you can make that happen. Today's episode is brought to you by my latest book, Flexible Leadership. Navigate uncertainty and lead with confidence. It's time to realize that styles can get in our way, and that following our strengths might not always be the best approach in a world more complex and uncertain than ever.

00:01:32:23 - 00:01:55:22
Kevin Eikenberry
Leaders need a new perspective, a new set of tools to help them create the great results their teams and organizations need. That's what flexible leadership provides you when you have a copy. Learn more and get your copy today at Remarkable podcast.com/flexible. And with that I'm going to bring in my guest. His name is Marty Dubin. I'm going to introduce him.

00:01:56:02 - 00:02:21:12
Kevin Eikenberry
His book says his name is Martin. He said call him Marty. He's a clinical psychologist turned serial entrepreneur. He's a business coach and trusted advisor to C-suite leaders in Silicon Valley founders. He built and led a multi-million dollar health care company, later acquired by anthem, and has worked with top executives from fortune 500 companies and major VC backed startups with a doctorate in psychology and deep business experience.

00:02:21:14 - 00:02:46:22
Kevin Eikenberry
Martin helps leaders uncover blind spots and unlock personal and professional growth. He's also held faculty roles at the center for Creative Leadership and the University of Denver. He has unpacked his work and wisdom in his new book, Blindspotting. How to See What's Holding You Back? He splits his time between Colorado and New Mexico, where he enjoys skiing, hiking, and coaching leaders around the world.

00:02:47:00 - 00:02:54:07
Kevin Eikenberry
And now he's our guest. We're talking about the book is brand new right now. Marty, thanks for joining me, and welcome.

00:02:54:09 - 00:02:57:12
Marty Dubin
Thank you for the opportunity. I'm looking forward to the conversation, Kevin.

00:02:57:14 - 00:03:21:15
Kevin Eikenberry
I mean, I don't know when anyone else is going to be listening to this or watching this later, but as we're having this conversation, the book is less than a week old, which is a super exciting time for any author. And so I'm super happy to have you with me. So let's start here. I'm guessing Marty, when you were, I don't know, ten years old, you weren't thinking you were going to become a clinical psychologist or, entrepreneur.

00:03:21:17 - 00:03:32:18
Kevin Eikenberry
Like, how do you end up doing this? So maybe, first of all, tell me if I'm wrong on that assumption. And then the second of all, sort of what sort of leads you on the path to doing the work that you're doing today?

00:03:32:20 - 00:03:57:10
Marty Dubin
Well, you're absolutely right about, what's in in my head, actually, if you look at my initials, my father was a physician, and I think, with the initials of MD, I think that was supposed to be my life course. But, it deviated. Yeah. It's, I got curious in college about myself and and everybody else, as many people do.

00:03:57:10 - 00:04:29:20
Marty Dubin
And and so I followed psychology and, and, I don't know about you, but, I've my career has taken a number of interesting turns. And I only realized I was on a different path when I look back and say, oh, there was a fork in the road back there. And the book just grew out of the fact that I've had this unusual career treating patients and then running a company, and then coaching, and I during Covid, actually, I just sat down and started to put my thoughts together like, why did I tell people what I told them?

00:04:29:20 - 00:04:36:22
Marty Dubin
What? How do I really think about, you know, what makes people tick and how to help people change? And so that's what resulted in the book.

00:04:37:00 - 00:04:57:08
Kevin Eikenberry
So let's talk about that then. About this book a little bit. It's called again, it's called everybody. It's called Blindspotting. How to see what's holding you back as a leader? There's lots been written and studied, and you probably know this far better than I that we as humans think we're more self-aware than we actually are. So why don't you talk about that?

00:04:57:21 - 00:05:03:13
Kevin Eikenberry
Agree or disagree and then take us into the idea behind Blindspotting?

00:05:03:15 - 00:05:34:20
Marty Dubin
Sure. Yeah. We, you know, we we are aware of ourselves, but we're not aware of ourselves completely. And, you know, we act on default responses. That if we had to think about everything that we were doing all the time, we never get anything done. So we act on automatic. And that's kind of how we're built as the organisms who we, we have pattern recognition, we have successful experiences, and that we learn how that's the way to respond in certain kinds of situations.

00:05:34:22 - 00:05:59:13
Marty Dubin
And so Blindspotting, I'm mostly I work with successful leaders, and the Blindspotting for that 5 or 10% when you're messing up. And it's when those automatic responses that are successful for you most of the time that fit the situations that you're in and bring you success, aren't working, and you're just not aware of it because you are doing what you normally do, what feels right to you.

00:06:00:10 - 00:06:15:19
Marty Dubin
You mentioned in, in your book, about over, you know, overusing strengths. And that's a very big chapter in my book. So that's an obvious one where people use their strengths and their works for the most of the time. But there are times when it doesn't.

00:06:15:21 - 00:06:29:14
Kevin Eikenberry
So, we'll, we'll, we'll sort of finish with, like, how do we, how do how do we, how do we find them, how do we see them and all that sort of thing. I mean, obviously that's the payoff here, but I want to talk a little bit about, the model.

00:06:29:16 - 00:06:29:21
Marty Dubin
That.

00:06:29:21 - 00:06:44:12
Kevin Eikenberry
You created and, we'll have a chance to talk about the, the types of blind spots, but just talk a little bit about the model, how how you came to the model. And, and how it's instructive. In the big picture before we get into some details.

00:06:44:14 - 00:07:05:03
Marty Dubin
Yeah. Thank you. So the model is a self-awareness model. And there's actually a diagram in the book. And I'll try to get you to visualize the diagram, as I talk about it here. And the hardest part of the book was, was figuring out the diagram. I figured out the six areas that I wanted people to think about.

00:07:06:04 - 00:07:32:08
Marty Dubin
And it's when I think about what I used in my psychotherapy practice in, in my coaching. And so the six areas are our behavior, our identity, our intellect, our emotion, our traits, and our motives. And it's a pretty for me, it's a complete way of looking at people. The most common way, especially in business people look at leaders, is about traits.

00:07:32:08 - 00:07:53:14
Marty Dubin
So traits is one of the pieces in here. But we're really much more complex than that. And to visualize the model, you can almost visualize, like a target, like a archery target or something. And the outer ring, is what's most of what we're most aware of, what we can access pretty clearly. And that's our identity and our behavior.

00:07:53:20 - 00:08:17:06
Marty Dubin
I mean, we just see how we behave. We're pretty aware of that. Our identity or kind of the nametags we wear. I am a father, son, a husband, psychologist. Whatever the different, those things are. So those those two are pretty aware. The next ring in has three pieces. Our traits, our emotions and our intellect.

00:08:17:08 - 00:08:38:12
Marty Dubin
And we have some access to that. And, and one more point on that outer ring, because we're most aware, we're most able to change it. This middle ring are pretty hard wired. Our intellect, our traits, our emotions, those are pretty hard wired. By the time we're adults. But but they show up in our behaviors, in our identity.

00:08:38:12 - 00:08:55:16
Marty Dubin
So we can we can change them by changing how they show up. And then in the course center of the, of the of the bullseye, if you will, is our motives. That's kind of the engine of our system. That's what pushes us, drives us to do things. And it's often the thing we're least aware of in a complex way.

00:08:56:13 - 00:09:10:22
Marty Dubin
And, so some of what I did, certainly as a psychotherapist and as a coach, was help people uncover what are the motives that are really driving them, that show up through all those other rings of the of the model.

00:09:11:00 - 00:09:27:19
Kevin Eikenberry
So, I want to start with identity. So it's the chapter you start with in the book. Once you, you get get rolling. And the reason I want to start there is because I mentioned, my book Flexible Leadership. And I find that one of the big challenges that people have about to be able to be flexible is that they've locked into their identity.

00:09:27:19 - 00:09:52:01
Kevin Eikenberry
This is who I am. This is how I lead. So I'd love for you to say more about let's talk more about that identity. Like how does it form? And I think more importantly, how can we in your I use the word change. You use the word evolve. How can we evolve our identity or reframe our identity? Let's talk about that because I think it is such a it's such a big challenge.

00:09:52:01 - 00:10:03:07
Kevin Eikenberry
Like you already said, we we live and work on auto response habits, which are hard enough to change, I think identities even harder to change.

00:10:03:09 - 00:10:22:17
Marty Dubin
Yeah. Know. Yeah. You and I are on the same page there. Yeah. So. All right, some of our identity, you know, happens very early. You know, society kind of tells us or family tells us, you know, you're good at this, you're good at that. You're this type of person. People in our family do it this way. So we we begin to develop our identity.

00:10:22:18 - 00:10:44:07
Marty Dubin
Some of our identities are those actual roles, that we you study to be an engineer. And so being an engineer is your identity. And, or your identity is to be a rule breaker or rebellious or a rule follower. So all these kinds of things become our identities when they become blind. I mean, they mostly work for us.

00:10:45:00 - 00:11:06:21
Marty Dubin
They when they were become when they're, when they're blind spots is when our eye when I look at it in terms of when our role changes and our identity doesn't catch up with our new role. And I really became aware of this, when I was working with entrepreneurs and having been one myself, I kind of in a broad sense, I think three roles with the entrepreneurs.

00:11:06:23 - 00:11:37:09
Marty Dubin
One is that they start out as an innovator. They're doing something new. It's never been done before. They're creative, they're curious, they're they're pushing things beyond the boundaries, and that's what excites them. And that's how they identify who they are. But at some point the product starts to catch traction and they start to have, business. Then they need to actually become a business builder, learn about legal and regulatory and marketing and all these other things, and start to give up that identity that they really loved.

00:11:37:19 - 00:12:04:18
Marty Dubin
And some, some don't and some actually exit as founders or they say, a founder, but the Exodus CEO. And then the final shift is to become a leader once the business's got is, really got traction, is building and is, you know, profitable in everything, then they need to really be leading other people. And in every one of those changes, there should if you're actually making the change, there should be some grief.

00:12:04:20 - 00:12:28:04
Marty Dubin
I mean, you loved that previous identity. It felt good for you. And so if you have to let go of it and get a new one, you should actually be feeling some sense of loss. And if you don't, then that might be a a little bit of a flag. And it's the same in regular business. People start out as individual contributors, they become managers, then they become managers of managers and then leaders of managers for each of those transitions.

00:12:28:04 - 00:12:37:09
Marty Dubin
If you, rise in a hierarchy, should bring you need to look and make sure your identity and your role are well aligned.

00:12:37:11 - 00:13:05:20
Kevin Eikenberry
You mentioned a word in in the book related to that, and it's a topic that's we've talked about a number of times over the years on the show, is the idea of feeling like we're an imposter. And when when you think about that, when you think about those transitions, whether it's from individual contributor to to front line leader, whether it's, you know, as the stages of the evolution of your business as you described earlier or whatever that might be, that this my identity is that I'm an imposter.

00:13:05:20 - 00:13:17:23
Kevin Eikenberry
People are going to figure me out. I really don't have this figured out. Like what's what's your take on that? There's been a lot written and talked about that. But I'm curious specifically about what your take is on that.

00:13:18:01 - 00:13:39:09
Marty Dubin
Yeah, I think I think most, most of us feel that at some point, you know, there's somewhat of I'm making it up till I figure it out. And you kind of, especially when you're moving into a new role, or a broader responsibility. So, I mean, I, I think it can be transitory about that sense of imposter.

00:13:39:09 - 00:14:01:17
Marty Dubin
And once you start to feel confident and you start to get some success in your new role, then you can kind of let go of that. I think it does really trip some people up. And it becomes something they hold on to throughout their life. And it isn't a, it is an identity. It is actually if you strip things back, that's one of the name tags they wear deep inside is, somebody is going to find out.

00:14:02:08 - 00:14:11:00
Marty Dubin
So that requires a little more work, with people where it's become kind of a, an identity that's been stuck, to try to help them get beyond that.

00:14:11:02 - 00:14:34:10
Kevin Eikenberry
But I think what you said first is really helpful to lots to the majority of us, which is it's natural for you to feel that in a transitory way. And so don't. And so correct me if what I'm going to say is incorrect. But don't be aware of it. Don't let it be a blind spot. But that feeling that recognize it could very well be transitory.

00:14:34:10 - 00:14:37:07
Kevin Eikenberry
And so don't make it something it's not. Is that fair?

00:14:37:12 - 00:14:57:05
Marty Dubin
Yeah. That's really and it's quite frankly that's true of a lot of things in psychopathology. And you know, some people go through changes and they get so caught up in it and they dig themselves a hole around it. And then it's really hard to, you know, hard to change. Anxiety disorders kind of often emerge that kind of way.

00:14:57:11 - 00:15:08:21
Marty Dubin
So yeah, catching those things early and, and then a good talk with yourself or having your, you know, friends and family support you and get you to move beyond it is really helpful.

00:15:08:23 - 00:15:38:06
Kevin Eikenberry
So in that so the outside ring is, identity and behaviors. I want to go to that next ring which was, which is intellect, emotion and traits. And so let's talk about intellect. How specifically for us as leaders, how does what are the what are some of the common blind spots you see around intellect and how what can we do to better understand ourselves around this area?

00:15:38:07 - 00:16:00:22
Marty Dubin
Yeah, this is probably the most experimental chapter, if you will, in my book. It's, I would love actually just I mean, I hope my book sparks some PhD dissertations and people, you know, can prove out or disprove some of the things in the book. But as a psychologist, my profession is probably the most guilty of fetishizing IQ.

00:16:01:00 - 00:16:22:19
Marty Dubin
And the smarter you are, the better you are. That kind of a concept. And I can't tell you how many times people have told me, oh, wait till you meet this person. They're wicked smart, which is a weird term to begin with anyway. But, but I certainly saw so many super bright people. You know, at some point, their intellect actually was getting in the way.

00:16:23:16 - 00:16:46:22
Marty Dubin
And so I started thinking about and I started thinking successful seeing successful people, leaders that were, you know, bright, but not the brightest bulb in the room. And so how did they get become so successful and, and how do they make better decisions? And so I think about four types of intelligence. That first one is the horsepower, that IQ kind of a thing, which certainly is important.

00:16:47:00 - 00:17:09:02
Marty Dubin
Some people are just have a the next what I call processing speed. Some people are just fast on the fly. And that's really important in business and in life. In a lot of situations, you just need to figure it out right then and make a decision and do that versus I need to think about it for a while and, you know, and go back and pull out a spreadsheet.

00:17:09:04 - 00:17:42:14
Marty Dubin
The third group is creativity. These are the people that see the unseen connections that just don't even, don't seem obvious to the rest of us and often seem like a distraction sometimes in meetings. So you think about it, you think, oh, wait a minute, what are the you know, what are they talking about in an astute leader puts together people with all these different kinds of intelligences in my mind, and so knows that they've got that creative one in the room, and they listen for for those ideas and make sure that they get the light of day, because sometimes.

00:17:42:19 - 00:17:44:16
Kevin Eikenberry
They get held on to so we don't lose them.

00:17:44:16 - 00:18:04:16
Marty Dubin
Right, exactly. And then the fourth is a little bit of a catch all. I call it street smarts. Tons of business acumen, a head on a pivot. These are people that are noticing things all the time, all around. And, really have a good these are often the best negotiators because they really can kind of get the emotional.

00:18:04:20 - 00:18:27:05
Marty Dubin
It's part of it's EQ. I think the emotional piece as well as all the data anyway, I blindspots are when you're over indexing on one type of intellect and not another. It's a rare person that is high in all four of those. But if you know where you are high and where you might be a little bit low in those, different types, then you surround yourself with people that help complement you.

00:18:27:05 - 00:18:32:11
Marty Dubin
And because it's all about making the best decision and the best judgment is a team.

00:18:32:18 - 00:18:53:13
Kevin Eikenberry
I'm going to go off the rails here a little bit. And as you were sharing that, I was thinking about an experience I had like three days ago. So just a couple of days ago, I celebrated my 45th high school class reunion. So yes, everyone who's watching or listening can do the math. And if you couldn't figure out how old I was by looking at the color of my hair, now you got a better clue.

00:18:53:19 - 00:19:22:05
Kevin Eikenberry
But I was at my class reunion and you know, you said that, you know, so often we overindex on on IQ and the way we would match that up in school, right or wrong, would be grades. Right? And I have always enjoyed my class reunion reunions, and I think I enjoy them even more. The older we all get, because you can think about how people have what they've done in their lives and you can say, well, I wouldn't have thought they would have because of me, the grades or they or why didn't they?

00:19:22:05 - 00:19:40:00
Kevin Eikenberry
Because he has a grades. And I think these putting these four things together is part of that. And as I was listening, I again, because that's the prisoner of the moment recency bias, right? I was thinking about people that I interacted with and that I've, that I know or that I know no more about their life trajectories. And it's an interesting way.

00:19:40:01 - 00:19:44:00
Kevin Eikenberry
It's easier often for us to think about that in terms of others than ourselves.

00:19:44:02 - 00:20:04:02
Marty Dubin
Right? Right, right, right. Yeah. I, I've had the exact same experience, you know, people that I grew up with and it's like, whoa, they were just like an average student, and they just blew the socks off of everybody else. And what what was it about them that, that kind of made that happen? And, and I, you know, the whole book is about the book is about self-awareness.

00:20:04:04 - 00:20:30:05
Marty Dubin
I mean, that's if I was going to describe the book in one word, that's what the book is about. And so with his intellect piece, as with all these others, it's it's getting to know who you are. No judgment, just getting to know who you are. That is who you are and what you're good at. And being able to figure out, what where your strengths are going to work well for you and where you need some help, or you need to kind of watch yourself, that you can kind of get into trouble.

00:20:30:07 - 00:20:52:11
Kevin Eikenberry
So let's talk about that strengths thing. It falls into the traits part of your model, but it really sort of fits in all parts of your model in a way. Right. And so talk about your thoughts that words come up several times already. What are your thoughts about strengths? Understanding them, being careful about them, etc.. Like share your thoughts here.

00:20:52:13 - 00:21:15:01
Marty Dubin
Yeah. So this was the this was actually the That probably started the book. In many ways, one of the things that I, do as a business coach, it's very common, is you do with what's called a 360. I interview everybody that works around and with the individual and you know it. You've there's lots of ways to do it, but it often falls into, you know, two major buckets.

00:21:15:01 - 00:21:33:05
Marty Dubin
What are the strengths and whether the opportunities for improvement. And I tended to think of that when I started to do that is just to two separate buckets, you know, and, and the strengths were interesting. But the person always wanted to say, well, where can I improve? Let's talk about where people, you know, both people didn't like about me.

00:21:33:23 - 00:22:13:05
Marty Dubin
And we'd go there and then I realized they weren't always the same words, but often the strength, the flip side of the strength was what people were talking about. You know, they would talk about the person being arrogant or distractible. Arrogant was the flip side of confidence. Distractible was the flip side of being overly curious. And I realized that that's what was what was coming out, and it was an easier thing for the, leader to get Ahold of when I started saying, you know, let's look at this, you know, as a as you as a whole and, and these are really when you're overusing your strengths.

00:22:13:07 - 00:22:34:09
Marty Dubin
And so one way for all of us to get an idea about this, is think about the things that you really think are your strengths or that people tell you that are your strengths, and then add the modifier t o in front of it. What happens when you're too social? What happens when you're too confident? What happens when you're too creative?

00:22:34:11 - 00:22:42:22
Marty Dubin
When you're too organized? And those are probably the things that your partner or your spouse or your friends talk to you about. Hey, you're too X.

00:22:43:00 - 00:22:45:11
Kevin Eikenberry
Or don't talk to you about, but talking to each other.

00:22:45:11 - 00:22:47:11
Marty Dubin
About what to talk to you about it. Right?

00:22:47:16 - 00:22:58:20
Kevin Eikenberry
Would like to talk to you about. Right? That's exactly right. A strength overused, right. Becomes a weakness. And and to your point, the point of this book, strength overuse often is the blind spot.

00:22:58:22 - 00:23:21:04
Marty Dubin
Yes. And it's we are always a mixture of who we are and the situation we're in. So your strength works in 90% of the situations you're in, say. But there are those 10% of the situations that you're in where it does not work, when it would be better if you were less social, when it would be better if you were less confident.

00:23:21:21 - 00:23:44:19
Marty Dubin
And do you know when those situations are happening so that you can adjust? The book is about we are the instrument. Our our personality is the instrument for whatever kind of leadership we're going to express. The more we know about our self, the more strategic we can be about how we deploy ourselves. So that's what this book is really about.

00:23:44:21 - 00:24:04:07
Kevin Eikenberry
If you miss the beginning and you like what you just heard, you need to make sure you get a copy of Blindspotting. How to see what's holding you back as a leader. And of course, you added that as a leader at the end, because the example is in the book. That's the context. And yet the book applies without the last three, right?

00:24:04:09 - 00:24:14:07
Kevin Eikenberry
Agreed. You you want to say anything about that, and you have this leader versus everybody else or even leader hat on, leader hat off. Any comment about all that?

00:24:14:09 - 00:24:30:16
Marty Dubin
Yeah, I, I love that you brought that up Kevin, I appreciate that. My publisher is Harvard Business Review Press. So it obviously they put that part as a leader. And it could be as a teacher, it could be as a parent. It could be just as a human being. Absolutely.

00:24:30:18 - 00:24:50:20
Kevin Eikenberry
And again, I think I think that if you can read, when you're reading the book, if you can read past the examples and don't say, oh, well, this is only a book for leaders, but just continue to read the concept and read the ideas. I think it's completely, to your point, applicable across. I'm glad that we had the chance to talk about that.

00:24:50:20 - 00:25:03:15
Kevin Eikenberry
Is there anything else? Marty, before I start to take us into the the homestretch here, are there any things that you wish I would have asked or that you'd really like to talk about?

00:25:03:17 - 00:25:22:14
Marty Dubin
You know, I think I think you've given everybody a good flavor of what the book's about. And each of the chapter, each of the chapters could be it could be a book in itself. The chapters end with, an a way for you to begin to think about yourself, some questions, and then some action items to try to do.

00:25:23:01 - 00:25:44:09
Marty Dubin
So it's not a, quote, self-help book in the, in the broadest sense, but there's some of that in there. It's a book to get you thinking about yourself. And I, just a little bit of a plug. I realized that I needed I wanted a psychological test to take people further. There is a bit of a catch 22 if you're to blind spot, how can you recognize it?

00:25:44:13 - 00:25:54:20
Marty Dubin
So we have a test. It's called, and it there's a QR code at the end of the book that, give you access to it. You can also find it on blindspotting.com.

00:25:54:22 - 00:26:16:03
Kevin Eikenberry
Blindspotting.com. So I do want to I do want to end there before I go into the homestretch with this question. As you said in each chapter, there are some things to help you think about that. But if you if people were where were here and they wanted some general, a general idea or two about, hey, I now know I have blind spots.

00:26:16:05 - 00:26:22:21
Kevin Eikenberry
How do I see them and address them? What are a couple of activities or actions people might take?

00:26:22:22 - 00:26:51:18
Marty Dubin
Yeah. First off, I think coaching is about small tweaks. You know, if you think about coaching that's from comes from athletics. And what a coaches do after somebody is a pretty good athlete. It's just small changes. So that's what we're about here. The awareness is the hard part getting aware. And then it's been very disciplined about a small things you can do that can create a different behavior that's different than your normal one.

00:26:51:23 - 00:27:11:07
Marty Dubin
So if you are too talkative you know in meetings, you know, you just have a stopwatch, you have somebody, you know, give you a raise of a finger or a thumb or something telling you, hey, you're talking too much. So find those little quick things of, you know, that you can do, go into the interaction that you're thinking of.

00:27:11:07 - 00:27:24:15
Marty Dubin
I want to practice my new behavior. So you got the awareness triggered. And then look for the small little changes you can make. And then it's just repeating that and repeating that just like your athletic coach would have you do.

00:27:24:17 - 00:27:38:01
Kevin Eikenberry
It's called practice. Everybody. A couple of things before we go, Marty, I'd like to know what you're reading. We all know what you want us to be reading right now, but what are you reading these days?

00:27:38:03 - 00:27:59:10
Marty Dubin
So it's probably not a surprise that as a psychologist, I tend to read biographies a lot. So actually, it's a big one. That's sitting on my desk is the new Ron Chernow book on, Mark Twain, who is just a fascinating, fascinating character. And I read those now, I read books with my kind of self-awareness model in my in my head.

00:27:59:12 - 00:28:05:00
Marty Dubin
So I'm, thinking about, you know, what? What is what was Mark Twain's make up?

00:28:05:02 - 00:28:25:11
Kevin Eikenberry
Awesome. So the new book about Mark Twain by Ron Chernow that will be in the show notes, as will be Martin Toobin's new book, Blindspotting How to make sure You Get the subtitle right. How to See what's Holding You Back as a leader. Where can we learn more? Where do you want to point us? Martin already mentioned blindspotting.com.

00:28:25:11 - 00:28:31:22
Kevin Eikenberry
Any place else you want to point is where? Where do you want to send us on our journey and getting connected with you?

00:28:32:13 - 00:28:48:16
Marty Dubin
Please. By the way, the book that of all the places that you buy books and yeah, blindspotting.com, we have a lot of content on there. In addition, I've, other talks that I've given and, other content, things that I've written are on Blindspotting, dot com.

00:28:48:18 - 00:29:14:06
Kevin Eikenberry
Blindspotting, dot com, also Martin dubin.com, I believe yes is also correct, as well. So, before we go, I want to ask the question to you as an audience. The question that I try to ask every single time we're together, and it is a simple two word question, but it's a powerful two word question. Now what what will you do with this information?

00:29:14:14 - 00:29:32:10
Kevin Eikenberry
What action will you take? Maybe you're going to go get the book, maybe you want to get the book so you can get QR codes. You can do the assessment. Maybe there's something that you heard about small tweaks. Maybe it's the idea of I need to be thinking about a 360. And as Martin said, there are a variety of ways to go about doing that.

00:29:32:10 - 00:29:53:20
Kevin Eikenberry
I don't know what your action is from this, and I don't presume to tell you other than to say that if you want this to have been a better use of your time than just listening, it would be to act on what you heard. And I hope that you do that. If you do, this will be a far more effective use of your time.

00:29:54:08 - 00:30:07:05
Kevin Eikenberry
Marty, thanks for being here. It was a pleasure to have you. I ever since I got this book and decided to have you on, I've been waiting for the chance to read it to get ready for our conversation. And it was a it was worth the wait.

00:30:07:07 - 00:30:15:06
Marty Dubin
Well, thank you. And one thing to leave you with. I'm a boilermaker to. So I know that was my word.

00:30:15:06 - 00:30:33:12
Kevin Eikenberry
Everybody. Now everybody. Marty will be back for another episode. We're going to talk about Purdue basketball. I'm just teasing. Listen, thank you, Marty, for being here. Thank you all for listening. It was a pleasure to have you here, even though you weren't with Marty and I live and so I hope that you found it valuable.

00:30:33:12 - 00:30:40:03
Kevin Eikenberry
And I hope you come back, because next week, we'll be back with another episode of the Remarkable Leadership podcast. And I hope you'll be back with us to.