The Remarkable Leadership Podcast

00:00:08:08 - 00:00:36:11
Kevin Eikenberry
Leadership is a journey and we will explore some of the steps on that journey today. Not all of us are on the same place on this journey, but the principles and practices that we'll talk about today apply to all of us, and that is our focus today. Welcome to another episode of the Remarkable Leadership Podcast, where we are helping leaders grow personally and professionally to lead more effectively and make a bigger difference for their teams, organizations and the world.

00:00:36:15 - 00:00:59:02
Kevin Eikenberry
If you are listening to this podcast in the future, you could join us live on your favorite social media channel. You can learn about how to do that and when those are happening, and interact with us and really get the information and inspiration sooner, because most of the time these happen live at least a month before they make it to the podcast.

00:00:59:02 - 00:01:29:08
Kevin Eikenberry
So you want to learn more about doing that. You can join our Facebook or LinkedIn groups. Just go to remarkable podcast slash Facebook or remarkable podcast, excuse me, remarkable podcast.com/facebook or remarkable podcast.com/linkedin to get all of that info, get the inside scoop, etc.. Today's episode is brought to you by our remarkable masterclasses. Pick from 13 important life and leadership skills to help you become more effective, productive and confident while overcoming some of a leader's toughest challenges.

00:01:29:10 - 00:01:56:14
Kevin Eikenberry
You can learn more by going to Remarkable masterclass.com. Our guest today is, Doctor Scott DeLong. He is a serial entrepreneur who has built three previous companies from the ground up. The successful exit from each has positioned him to continue his thirst for knowledge and experience, and cultivated a return to the educational system where he received not only a doctorate in leadership studies, but also taught courses in both communications and entrepreneurship at the university level.

00:01:56:18 - 00:02:20:05
Kevin Eikenberry
His book I thought I was a Leader A Journey to Building Trust, Leading Teams and Inspiring Change, details. His journey and explores the power of transformational leadership, and it is in fact, the basis of our conversation today. He's also the co-host of the CEO podcast, a biology show delving into the most important topics and issues facing today's business leaders.

00:02:20:06 - 00:02:22:09
Kevin Eikenberry
Scott, welcome.

00:02:22:11 - 00:02:24:23
Scott De Long
Thank you. Kevin, I really appreciate you having me on.

00:02:25:01 - 00:02:39:09
Kevin Eikenberry
So glad to have you here. And again, if you're with us live, you can send us notes. So what do we get? We get someone here from Texas, and I know we've got a lot more of the folks in that. So if you've joined us late and you want to share, hello. We'd love to have it, but.

00:02:39:09 - 00:03:09:03
Kevin Eikenberry
But, Scott, I want to dive in, with a question that I almost always ask guests. And because, this word is in the title of your book, maybe it's an especially interesting one today, but like when you were a kid, you probably didn't figure that you'd be doing now what you're doing now. so just tell us a little bit at the very high level about the journey that leads you to doing the work that you do today and why it's important.

00:03:09:05 - 00:03:34:20
Scott De Long
Well, thanks. I appreciate the question. a lot of this journey is detailed in the book. however, I, I, I the title was is really important to me and I thought I was a leader because everywhere I went, whether I was on the baseball field, being named a captain or, in the business world, getting promoted young and becoming managers and vice presidents and things that are very early age.

00:03:34:22 - 00:03:50:09
Scott De Long
I always thought that I was in a leadership position when I started my own companies. I always thought I was a great leader as well. There's a line in the in the book that and then I hope I'm allowed to say this, but I said I thought I was a leader. It turns out I was just in awe.

00:03:50:11 - 00:04:16:12
Scott De Long
And that goes back to some of the training that I got from my my coaches and my first bosses, and where they were managers and management was the way of going command and control. Leadership is was really what it was all about. And those days are gone. I mean, they still exist, but they need to be gone because the future generations are going to require them to be gone.

00:04:16:14 - 00:04:29:07
Scott De Long
The kids today are not going to put up with that style of management. And I like to say we manage processes, we manage projects. We need to lead people.

00:04:29:09 - 00:04:51:13
Kevin Eikenberry
Yeah, I would agree with that 100%. Scott. And and the subtitle of the book does say A Journey Building Trust Leading Teams and Inspiring Change. And I and I want to talk about trust. So why does trust make that subtitle, and why is trust so important for us? Are you just said that we need to lead people, so I think we can make that connection.

00:04:51:13 - 00:04:58:00
Kevin Eikenberry
But talk a little bit more about why trust is so important for us as leaders, wherever we are in our journey.

00:04:58:01 - 00:05:28:16
Scott De Long
good. Great question. Because because of this one statement that I like to make is that I've never seen a positive human relationship unless trust has been developed first. So trust is paramount whether it's in your personal relationships or your business relationships, whether they're with customers, whether they're with employees, whether they're with vendors without trust. All we can get is transactional relationships instead of transformational ones.

00:05:28:18 - 00:05:47:23
Kevin Eikenberry
So so I want to come back to that last point in a second. But but talk to me about this because leaders will say all the time, I'm sure you've heard it many times. You probably felt it yourself, on your own journey. That. Okay, I get that that sounds good. Trust is important. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we have work to do.

00:05:48:01 - 00:06:02:13
Kevin Eikenberry
Like I got, how do I how do we, remind ourselves and encourage others to recognize the value of this beyond the words and actually invest the time to build it?

00:06:02:15 - 00:06:22:04
Scott De Long
Yeah, well, I think more and more work is being done by teams these days rather than the individual contributors just doing their thing and going at it. And when you get down to it, the thing that turns a group into a team. So there are several factors within that. I mean, certainly you have to have people with complementary skill sets, not exact success, but complementary.

00:06:22:04 - 00:06:42:10
Scott De Long
So we need as a baseball player. So we don't need nine shortstops. We need a shortstop and a pitcher and a catcher and a first baseman and an outfielder. People that have some complementary skills in order to make that team work, we have to have a purpose. We have to have a unified purpose for the team to get together and to do the work together.

00:06:42:14 - 00:07:12:04
Scott De Long
We need processes in which this team can work and here's two clues and very important. We need a communication system, a communication process to support the business processes that we're working with that leads to trust. Without trust between and with team members, you will never have a true team. You may have a group of people working together, but if they don't trust each other, there is no way for them to develop into a team.

00:07:12:06 - 00:07:30:22
Kevin Eikenberry
So you made that comment about not everyone can be a shortstop. My favorite basketball coach, which happens to be my alma mater. Matt Painter says, he says everyone wants to be the shortstop and that leadoff, but you can't have that if you have a team. and so it just when you said that, it crossed my mind that I've heard Matt say that more than once.

00:07:31:00 - 00:07:45:21
Kevin Eikenberry
so. And by the way, everybody, I would love to have Matt on the show, and I haven't worked and worked at making it happen, but I'm just stating that out loud that I want to have Matt Painter on the show some day. So if any of you listening or watching can help me make that happen, let me know.

00:07:45:23 - 00:07:55:20
Kevin Eikenberry
I haven't really tried yet, but Scott, I'm going to have that happen someday. so so we're talking about trust. And in your book you talk about something called The Circle of Trust.

00:07:55:22 - 00:07:56:01
Scott De Long
Yeah.

00:07:56:02 - 00:08:05:18
Kevin Eikenberry
So tell me about what that looks like and and how that can be useful to us. as leaders describe your circle of trust.

00:08:05:20 - 00:08:18:20
Scott De Long
So a little backstory. First is that the way trust is typically developed is that we do what we say we're going to do, and that we're going to do it again, and then we do it again and we do it again. And it's a slow, arduous process in order to build trust in a typical and a typical style.

00:08:18:22 - 00:08:41:13
Scott De Long
But the circle of trust was developed for was a way to develop trust both faster and deeper than in typical style of building. Trust. There's only four steps to it, and they're simple, but they're not necessarily easy to to deploy. The first one is starting with respect, and it's not the kind of respect that my dad taught me is that respect is earned.

00:08:41:13 - 00:09:16:07
Scott De Long
It's not given. You have to do things to earn respect. I'm talking about a different level of respect. I'm talking about a respect for the humanity, for human dignity, to, to to recognize the fact that I can learn something from every human being and they all have value. If we start there, we can enter into a conversation. The next step in the circle is a concept from Stephen Covey and his seven Habits of Highly Effective People, and that is listening to understand where most of us listen to reply.

00:09:16:09 - 00:09:36:00
Scott De Long
You ask a question, you make a statement. I can't wait to jump in. Now we do it with good intentions. I'm jumping in because I'm trying to make a connection with you, but the problem is that I'm stepping on your story. I don't fully understand where you're coming from first, and now I'm getting in front of you while I'm trying to make a connection.

00:09:36:00 - 00:09:51:22
Scott De Long
What I'm actually doing is going to be pushing you away because I'm not getting into your story. So listening to understand takes everything that it takes for active listening. We need to get good. I contact, we need to nod. We need to paraphrase. We need to give them a piece of what our understanding of what they're saying is.

00:09:52:00 - 00:10:12:23
Scott De Long
But there's one step that goes a little bit further. And this is really important. And that is to to ask deeper questions about what you are talking about. And when I say deeper questions, I'm talking about open ended questions. I'm talking about questions that can't be answered with a yes or a no yes or no questions in the conversation.

00:10:13:01 - 00:10:30:23
Scott De Long
Open ended questions can get a can get dialog going. I just proved this the other day. I was with a group and and it wasn't an act. It was real because it has to be sincere. But there was a gentleman that I hadn't met before and it was before the meeting started. And so I asked him about, you know, one of his hobbies.

00:10:30:23 - 00:10:53:19
Scott De Long
And, and he happened to be a jujitsu, and I, I'm not a guy. So I started asking him deeper questions about what you do in it and and why is it important to you? And tell me more and can you help me understand? And and I got through about 5 or 6 questions and you could just see everybody at the table leaning in, just really engaged.

00:10:53:21 - 00:11:13:19
Scott De Long
And afterwards I took a moment to talk to the group and I said, so I said, I said so. So, Kevin, how do you feel about me right now? He goes on a lot to have more conversation with you. This is great. Why people want to talk about themselves. They want their story to come out. And if I show enough care to find out about their story, several things happen.

00:11:14:00 - 00:11:37:17
Scott De Long
One, I get smarter. I'm going to learn more information by going deeper. And that's great. Good for me. But two by showing that care, it draws people into me. And trust me, they will give you most people. Most people will give you the time to talk about your story as well. If they're that and if you're that interested in them, they are going to be interested in you and you're going to get your turn.

00:11:37:19 - 00:12:03:00
Scott De Long
But don't rush to take your turn. Find out about others. Now, that is a super powerful way of building relationships by caring, being interested instead of interesting, right? The third step of the program of the circle of trust is something that we call share from experience. Sharing from experience is something I learned in a group called Entrepreneur Organization, and they used to have a protocol that we called Gestalt Language Protocol.

00:12:03:00 - 00:12:25:19
Scott De Long
They don't use that anymore. But basically what it says is that we don't give advice. At first, I hated that I went to this group that really smart people to get some advice from them, and they said, no, no, no, you know, we don't do that. And there's a couple reasons for that. The first one is people only want your advice if you're confirming what they think anyway.

00:12:25:21 - 00:12:46:21
Scott De Long
And second, when you give them contrary advice, they don't take it. And all I'm going to do is get upset when they don't take my advice, my brilliant advice for them. So what I, what I learned to do is, as I learned to take the word should out of my vocabulary, unless I'm talking about myself and I had I had to learn this the hard way.

00:12:46:23 - 00:13:07:10
Scott De Long
And what it took for me to do is to to apply a term that I can't stand. Arrogance to the word should. I think it is arrogant of me, Kevin, for me to tell you what you should do. I don't have your background, I don't have your experience, I don't have your knowledge, and I don't have your consequences.

00:13:07:12 - 00:13:11:20
Kevin Eikenberry
And I certainly don't have the full, full context of this is right.

00:13:12:01 - 00:13:34:02
Scott De Long
So arrogant of me for me to tell you what you should do. So sharing from experience looks more like this. After fully listening to their story and trying to really understand from their point of view, not from mine, but from their point of view. Sharing from experience with sound like I'm similar circumstance. Here's what happened to me, here's how it turned out.

00:13:34:03 - 00:14:00:15
Scott De Long
But more importantly, here's how it felt. We don't use the word feelings in business very much, and I think that's a mistake. We all have them and they're real. And why avoid them so telling somebody how that those experiences felt may help them. It may, but what it does is by being a little vulnerable, lets them in to me as well.

00:14:00:17 - 00:14:22:12
Scott De Long
And vulnerability is part of trust, right? The classic definition of trust is being vulnerable to the actions of another. So I need to be a little vulnerable if I want people to trust. Now, the fourth step is just the, what we call deliver on the promise, which is the old school style of building trust, doing what you say you're doing, doing it again and doing it again and do it again.

00:14:22:12 - 00:14:49:02
Scott De Long
Right. Just it's the fastest way to break trust by not honoring your commitments. And it's a slow, tedious way of just building it. If you do it in isolation. So the circle of trust creates a system that you can build trust both faster and deeper. And what we found is that if we just go through that cycle three times with an individual, we can start building a different level of respect and therefore a relationship.

00:14:49:02 - 00:14:52:00
Scott De Long
And that relationship is built on trust.

00:14:52:02 - 00:15:13:08
Kevin Eikenberry
And one of the things I would add, and you can comment on this, however, whether you agree or disagree, you can tell me, is that if we, if we focus only on the delivering on what we promise. Right. Sort of the transactional level of trust, which is important if we if we only have that one, as you said, it's the easiest one to be broken.

00:15:13:08 - 00:15:32:00
Kevin Eikenberry
But if we're doing all four of these things regularly in the cycle, even when we do foul up because we're human, right? It's it's less likely to break trust entirely. And because it's built on more than just delivering on what I said, I deliver.

00:15:32:00 - 00:15:53:10
Scott De Long
Yeah, I agree, I mean, we can't and I make every attempt I can to deliver on my promise, but stuff happens, right? for instance, we had a we had a you and I, we were supposed to do this a couple weeks ago, and, and all of a sudden I had an opportunity to go visit my daughter in South Carolina and couldn't be live with you.

00:15:53:12 - 00:16:05:21
Scott De Long
I thought we rescheduled it. I broke my promise. But I did what I could to reschedule it, to do what I can to make it okay for the other person. And you were gracious enough to be able to do that for me. And I appreciate it.

00:16:05:23 - 00:16:25:10
Kevin Eikenberry
So. So one of the things that, you spend a good bit of time talking about in the book that I think as leaders, we have to focus on B and I think that often we don't spend enough time thinking about it in deep ways. And that is the role between us being a leader and what power means.

00:16:25:12 - 00:16:50:10
Kevin Eikenberry
and so what I really you talk in the book about that there being multiple different types of power, which I would agree with. And so really what I'd like to start with is what is the what are the types of power that as leaders, we often lean into, sometimes to our detriment. But like, what are they sort of common kinds of power that we might be thinking about as leaders that might not help us the most?

00:16:50:11 - 00:17:11:01
Scott De Long
Well, I think, I think and you can look at it two ways. You can look at it positional power or physical power. For instance, the United States has a lot of physical power because we've got a great military right, or the bully on the in the block has has power because he could beat you up. Right? So that's one type of power.

00:17:11:05 - 00:17:32:18
Scott De Long
But in the business world we use positional power. I'm the boss because I said so. Do it my way. I know better than you know. and I come to find out that that's not always true. In fact, rarely true. there's there's often oftentimes I get into companies and the CEO is, is, you know, dictating who buys what.

00:17:32:18 - 00:17:52:19
Scott De Long
And then they buy the broom for the janitor. Right. Who knows better how to use that broom than the janitor? The CEO doesn't. So you go down to the level where the people know what they need and find out, rather than me asserting my authority over them. And that can. And that's an extreme example. That's gender in the CEO, certainly.

00:17:53:00 - 00:18:06:15
Scott De Long
But I'm talking about managers and directors and vice presidents and and all of those folks who are doing that job every day under current circumstances, not the circumstances. The CEO did it 20 years ago when he was that level.

00:18:06:17 - 00:18:09:22
Kevin Eikenberry
He did five years ago or even three years ago. Right?

00:18:09:22 - 00:18:10:07
Scott De Long
Yeah.

00:18:10:08 - 00:18:11:20
Kevin Eikenberry
The world is changing so fast and the.

00:18:11:20 - 00:18:39:08
Scott De Long
World is changing. So let the people let the experts bring their expertise to bear. And now and now my power now changes to influence. I want to be able to influence people to inspire. That influence is is not manipulation. It is to inspire. The type of influence that I'm looking for is to inspire people, to help them want to do their best work.

00:18:39:10 - 00:19:03:03
Scott De Long
And my job comes back to providing them the tools for them to be able to do their best work, not tell them how to use those tools. Not necessarily me. I might have some expertise in how to use the hammer or whatever tool we're talking about, but but my job, my real job is to provide them the resources and the tools so that they can do their work.

00:19:03:04 - 00:19:26:06
Kevin Eikenberry
So shifting from, oh, I think there you go. Oh, you froze for a second, but you're back. so, shifting from positional power to the power of influence, for example, are there other, other sorts of power that maybe as leaders we don't think about enough? Like, I think we're all pretty clear that we have positional power. That's a fact.

00:19:26:11 - 00:19:40:18
Kevin Eikenberry
But if we lean into it as the main or only type of power we work from, we're not going to be very successful. Are there other other than sort of influence or inspirational power, anything else there that you want to highlight for us and make sure that we're thinking about?

00:19:40:22 - 00:20:11:09
Scott De Long
I think I want to do it in an in reverse, in reverse order. What I want to talk about is the detriment of, of of using those positional powers and the coercive ness and the corrosion that happens when I use that. That's the thing that we need. We leaders need to recognize is that when we use that positional power or the authority power that that that comes from wherever, whether it's our physical strength or whether our our position, it is coercive and it is corrosive.

00:20:11:11 - 00:20:41:07
Scott De Long
It it tears down relationships. Instead, it builds them up. And if the theories in my book are true, that our job as leaders is to build people up and to lead rather than do for them, right then what we want is people to be in their best, and we do that by assisting, providing the resources, whether it's knowledge or other resources that that we can provide.

00:20:41:09 - 00:20:53:02
Scott De Long
But to the word empower is used a lot. But but that's really what what it gets down to is to allow them the power to do their jobs right.

00:20:53:04 - 00:21:09:17
Kevin Eikenberry
One of the things that one of the statements that you make in the book, which is a statement that that we talk about all of the time, which is the difference between and you've just really said it without saying these words. And it's it's the difference between leading for compliance versus leading for commitment. Yeah. And that's literally what you've just been talking about.

00:21:09:17 - 00:21:22:04
Kevin Eikenberry
Yeah. And and we frame it as a choice that we as leaders need to make. And, and and rarely do I have a leader say, well, I just want to lead for compliance. Although unfortunately many are actually leading that way.

00:21:22:05 - 00:21:23:22
Scott De Long
We act like it. We act like, act.

00:21:23:23 - 00:21:52:03
Kevin Eikenberry
Like it even if we don't want it. So so framing it that way, I obviously, you know, one of the things we like about books is when people say things that we agree with. and so that's certainly something that you and I agree with. I want to go if we're talking about power and we're talking about, you know, I have the positional power and we're talking about the fact that I've done these jobs or I've, I've been through the I've been through all of the wars, and now I'm the leader.

00:21:52:05 - 00:22:10:10
Kevin Eikenberry
and now I may be the CEO or I'm the vice president or whatever. And even if I'm just the front line leader. Right. One of the things we've always societally said we want from leaders, want leaders to be confident. And yet, one of the things that you talk about in the book is that we need to be humble.

00:22:10:12 - 00:22:19:17
Kevin Eikenberry
So talk about the role of humility and how it relates to, us being more effective as leaders.

00:22:19:19 - 00:22:48:05
Scott De Long
Yeah. Well, there's there's three things in, in what we call principled leadership, humility being the first, empathy and vulnerability that are not typical leadership type processes that people think about. But I think humility is a really important one. And I've got a friend of mine who was very humble leader, in fact, he said all the time, you know, when I was first getting into consulting with him, he said he would say the words, I don't know, right?

00:22:48:07 - 00:23:11:08
Scott De Long
He threw out these sayings and it ended with the and I said, you got to stop saying that. You got to quit saying, I don't know. And I was wrong. So I think not knowing is okay being humble enough and, and I like instead of I don't know. But I like to rephrase that now is to talk about an idea and then say, Kevin, what do you think?

00:23:11:10 - 00:23:37:11
Scott De Long
Right? Invite the conversation. I don't know, may tell people that I'm not confident and I'm fully confident. But if I say to you, I got an idea, Kevin, what do you think? Like that's an invitation to tell you that I can learn something from you. And I think that's what humility means to me. It doesn't mean, what people normally think of all.

00:23:37:11 - 00:23:51:02
Scott De Long
Please don't issue praise on me and all that kind of false humility that I've seen people do. But it is the fact that I can learn something from you, and I need to invite you into that conversation. To me, that's where the humility and leadership comes.

00:23:51:04 - 00:24:12:18
Kevin Eikenberry
Yeah. what do you think is my favorite four word question? Right. And and it and it is getting that humility in that sort of way. So how how do we how do we walk the, the tightrope then or the tensions between being confident and being humble?

00:24:12:20 - 00:24:35:21
Scott De Long
Well, I think I think confidence comes from from within. I've done what I've done. I'm I am who I am. I built that and I feel pretty good about that. But I also need to recognize that I don't know everything and I don't know the right way for everything. In fact, I think I used to say that I'm just do it the right way, right?

00:24:35:23 - 00:24:56:22
Scott De Long
That's out of my vocabulary as well. There might not be a right way now. Certainly there's right and wrong, but I'm talking about a right way of accomplishing something. I might be able to do something in this fashion, or you can do it faster, better, cheaper. Using another fashion both gets us to the outcomes that we're looking for, getting the thing done.

00:24:57:00 - 00:25:04:02
Scott De Long
And it's not necessarily a right way or Scotch way. Yeah.

00:25:04:04 - 00:25:22:10
Kevin Eikenberry
yeah. We often I often frame it around, what's the best way, which is different than the right way because. Right. It's like there's, you know, there's there's multiple good ways, better ways, effective ways. but if we try to get to. Right, especially when we are the leader with positional power, everyone thinks, oh, what he really wants is his way.

00:25:22:10 - 00:25:42:07
Kevin Eikenberry
To your point, as a second ago, we you mentioned the three, the three things in what you would call the principles of humility, empathy and vulnerability. And I just want to take the second I'm looking at the clock here. And if we can talk about vulnerability just for a second. Sure. Because, I think you say this in the book.

00:25:42:07 - 00:25:58:18
Kevin Eikenberry
Certainly it's true. I mean, whether you said it or not, I know we would agree on this, and that is that this wasn't something anyone talked about when they were writing books, or they're doing the work that you and I do 15 years ago. Like, this is a new word in the framework of what it means to be an effective leader.

00:25:59:00 - 00:26:18:23
Kevin Eikenberry
And so while we could probably have done the entire show on this word or this idea, give it everybody sort of one thing, like maybe let's do it this way from your perspective, what does it mean to be vulnerable and, and help us as leaders understand why that's okay.

00:26:19:01 - 00:26:37:10
Scott De Long
I'm going to go with the why. It's okay. First, because I believe this 100%. And I learned this, I learned this through some of my, my journey. But what I found was that, and I didn't grow up. I didn't grow up with vulnerability at all. In fact, all three of these principles are things that I grew up with at all.

00:26:37:12 - 00:27:07:07
Scott De Long
But what I found about being vulnerable is it is the most attractive quality I can have. And what I mean by it's not going to make me any better looking or, or, you know, what people are or whatever, but but by being vulnerable, they lean in to me, being vulnerable, says Kevin. I could use a little help when I say that unless you have antisocial personality disorder and you're a narcissist, a sociopath or a psychopath.

00:27:07:09 - 00:27:39:04
Scott De Long
When I say Kevin, I could use a little help. You lean in. What can I do for you? And if you can, you will. All right, so when I say attractive, what I mean is it draws people to me by my vulnerability. And asking for help is not something that is easy for CEOs to do, especially those of us who grew up in the 70s and 80s and the command and control style, where we are supposed to be this stoic, strong, confident person.

00:27:39:06 - 00:27:43:15
Scott De Long
But asking for help will get people to come to me.

00:27:43:17 - 00:28:02:00
Kevin Eikenberry
Yeah, I would agree with that 100%. So, in in, in the 30 minute conversation, there's obviously all sorts of things I could have asked that I didn't. Is there one specific thing that you wish I would have asked, or is there one specific thing, Scott, that we haven't talked about that you'd like to talk about briefly?

00:28:02:02 - 00:28:32:09
Scott De Long
I think just the one thing is that my purpose, the reason that I do what I do and from where I came from with this command and control leadership style and most of the men of my generation, and to the I'm talking to the men of my generation here who grew up with those coaches that were always right, and we just did what they told us, and we got compliant and they got compliance from us or from their their first leaders is that there is a better way, there is a better way to lead.

00:28:32:11 - 00:28:56:12
Scott De Long
And the new generations that that I hear so many complaints about Gen Z and millennials and whatever their flaws, that people make, the assumptions that they are, that we need to think through, that they are not. If they represent more than 51% of our current workforce, I can make the assumption that they represent 51% of our customer base as well.

00:28:56:14 - 00:29:23:16
Scott De Long
We need these people. We need their thoughts, and we raise them to be who they are. Right? Showing care and concern for their mental health and all the different problems that, you know, you hear people talking about. We are the ones that need to make the changes. We, this older generation, needs to adjust to what the future looks like rather than hang on to our past.

00:29:23:18 - 00:29:41:02
Scott De Long
I wrote this book for people that looked like me, and in my age and in my age bracket. And come to find out, it's the next generation. Below them are the ones that are resonating with it. They're saying, you're right. Hey, my dad's not going to change or my CEO is not going to change. They're too close to retirement.

00:29:41:02 - 00:29:59:07
Scott De Long
It's too much work, and it is work. It is where it takes take. I've been on this journey for 14 years trying to become a better human and a better leader. And I'm not there yet, and I'm still working on it. So yes, it's work and I'm going to tell you it's worth it. It's worth it.

00:29:59:09 - 00:30:18:20
Kevin Eikenberry
So that's some really good stuff we've been talking about. Scott. Doctor Scott DeLong, the author of the book, I Thought I Was a Leader A Journey Toward Building trust, Leading teams and Inspiring Change. And before we finished, Scott, I want to shift gears for a second and ask you a couple of other questions. Yeah. that would have been a really good way to end the podcast, but unfortunately, that's not where we're going to end up.

00:30:18:20 - 00:30:25:14
Kevin Eikenberry
Okay, I want to ask you a very different kind of question. I want to know, Scott, what do you do for fun?

00:30:25:16 - 00:30:45:21
Scott De Long
I play pickleball right now. Right. It's I have gotten addicted to pickleball. I, I get up in the morning and I rush over to the court. I play for a couple hours. And I tell you what, I was a I was a baseball player. And then it turned into tennis and my body's falling apart and I've got two new knees and and all that.

00:30:45:22 - 00:31:05:15
Scott De Long
But pickleball is a game I can play. And I tell you what, just the the the camaraderie on the court. You play on playing doubles. So there's four people I get to meet. New people. people are smiling, having a great time. That's what I do. That and travel. I like to travel as well, but my daily routine is surrounds pickleball.

00:31:05:15 - 00:31:06:23
Scott De Long
Today.

00:31:07:01 - 00:31:20:04
Kevin Eikenberry
and something else that I know. What I know we have in common is reading, and which is pretty much always true for my guest on the show. And I did tell you I was going to ask you this question, and I'm excited for you to share the book, because the book that I've read as well. So, so, Scott, what are you reading?

00:31:20:04 - 00:31:23:03
Kevin Eikenberry
And, and I think in this case, it's rereading, but what are you reading right now?

00:31:23:05 - 00:31:47:10
Scott De Long
So it's rereading. you're right. This I'm going to there's one of my favorite authors, someone that that, you know, and that has been around for decades, Tom Peters, who's recently retired. But, Tom Peters wrote a series of book, search for excellence was his first one that that really hit the charts. But this was the first book Thriving on Chaos that I ever read.

00:31:47:12 - 00:32:05:22
Scott De Long
I was 27 years old, and I found this book, and I and I read through it, and then I got an opportunity to get a promotion to for, companies on the East Coast that I was working with. I was a regional sales manager, West Coast regional sales manager at the time. And, and the president wanted me to come and help him.

00:32:06:00 - 00:32:24:15
Scott De Long
He was working in this family business, and I said, I'll move. I'll come there. I'll take your vice president title. And again, I was only 27 years old. And this guy's been in business for, you know, doing business for 27 years. Right? Right. And I said under one condition. You read this book first. So it was that powerful for me.

00:32:24:21 - 00:32:43:22
Scott De Long
First, fifth business book that I ever read. Right. And then, and and now I go back and anytime anything I see from Tom, whether it's, you know, old, old, tweets or things like that, I just like, I mean, this guy was like, if I had him, if I knew him, if I had a mentor, he'd be it.

00:32:44:00 - 00:32:55:08
Scott De Long
So thriving on chaos. It's a handbook for the management revolution. And they we used to use the word management. That's what it was back then. And I the revolution is leadership.

00:32:55:10 - 00:33:17:22
Kevin Eikenberry
And we'll make sure in the show notes we'll make, we'll we'll put connections to the, up to the two times that Tom has been on the show. And as I told Scott before we started, they were highlights, personal highlights for me. Yeah, would be for that. so, Scott, before we go, there's a question that I know you would like me to ask, which is where can people learn more about your work and get Ahold of the book?

00:33:17:22 - 00:33:25:02
Kevin Eikenberry
I've shown it a couple of times, but where where do you wanna point people? Where do you want people to go to learn more about you? Your work in the book.

00:33:25:04 - 00:33:50:08
Scott De Long
So you can go to a couple places? My company's lead to goals lead the number two goals.com. But you can get to me at Scott DeLong dot net. But if you want to engage in a conversation, email me. I respond to every legitimate email that I receive and it's just Scott at lead to goals.com and I will answer questions.

00:33:50:08 - 00:34:15:12
Scott De Long
I mean, I love like talking about this stuff. I like it and working with people and helping people if I can, at least providing my thoughts. Right. I think, you know, when I work as a, as a, coach, I think there's three things that that a coach can help, you know, an executive do one, it can help them reframe the issue because we get blinders on and we don't always see.

00:34:15:14 - 00:34:37:22
Scott De Long
The second one is can challenge your assumptions, because not everyone will challenge your assumptions. If you're the boss, right. And the third thing that that a leader, the executive coach can do is hold you accountable because people don't do that either to their boss. Right? So I love the coaching work because I get to do those three things with other smart, powerful people.

00:34:38:00 - 00:34:41:17
Scott De Long
I get to learn in the process as well. And that's what's fun for me.

00:34:41:19 - 00:34:58:13
Kevin Eikenberry
So lead to the number two goals.com Scott at lead two goals.com. And if you want to find Scott on any of the social media channels lead numeral two goals and you'll find him in all of those places. Hope you'll do that. We'll put all that in the show notes as well. But now I have a question for all of you before we finish.

00:34:58:13 - 00:35:23:06
Kevin Eikenberry
It's a question I ask every single episode. It's my favorite two word question. We talked earlier about my favorite forward question. Here's my favorite two word question. Now what what action are you going to take as a result of the time that we've spent together? What ideas are you going to translate into action? What things did Scott say or did you think of as we were talking that would make a difference for you?

00:35:23:06 - 00:35:45:00
Kevin Eikenberry
Because if all you do is consume this content, listen to this or watch us and not take any action, then it will have been of far less value than it would have otherwise. Right? So maybe there's something about humility, something about confidence, something about power, something that we talked about, that, something about trust that you want to take action on.

00:35:45:02 - 00:36:01:16
Kevin Eikenberry
Maybe you want to. Maybe you want to start employing the circle of trust or whatever it is. It doesn't matter what it is. What matters is that there is a what and that you take action on it. Scott, thanks so much for being here. It is a pleasure to have you. I'm so glad that you joined us today and that we were able to make this happen.

00:36:01:18 - 00:36:06:18
Scott De Long
That's been great, Kevin, I really I again, I love the conversation. So thank you for having me on.

00:36:06:20 - 00:36:28:02
Kevin Eikenberry
It was my pleasure. And so if this is the first time that you've joined us, on the Remarkable Leadership Podcast, make sure you come back if you're watching us. in on one of the social platforms live or later, and you didn't know about the Remarkable Leadership Podcast, you can learn more by going to any of your favorite podcast platform or go to Remarkable podcast.com to get all of the information.

00:36:28:02 - 00:36:36:03
Kevin Eikenberry
And we're doing this every week, and we'll hope that you'll be back with us next week for another episode of the Remarkable Leadership Podcast. Thanks, everybody.