The Remarkable Leadership Podcast

00:00:08:07 - 00:00:38:06
Kevin Eikenberry
Are you ready to be inspired and challenged? Are you ready to see a new way of building and leading companies? From a former refugee who has lived the American dream? get ready for a roller coaster ride to be challenged about how you think about business. Welcome to another episode of the Remarkable Leadership Podcast. I'm so glad you're Here, where we are helping leaders grow personally and professionally to lead more effectively and make a bigger difference for themselves, their teams, their organizations, and the world.

00:00:38:10 - 00:00:57:20
Kevin Eikenberry
If you're listening to this podcast in the future, you could join us because all of these are originally live and live streamed and on a variety of social channels. So if you want to know more about that to join us in the future, get the information sooner and get sort of more connected with this podcast. You can do that by going to, our Facebook or LinkedIn groups.

00:00:57:20 - 00:01:24:17
Kevin Eikenberry
Go to Remarkable podcast. Excuse me, remarkable podcast, dot com slash LinkedIn or remarkable podcast.com/facebook. If you do that you can get connected. Find out when these are scheduled so you can join us in the future. I hope you'll do that. Now. one more thing. this episode is brought to you by my upcoming book, the second edition of The Long Distance Leader Revised Rules for Remarkable Remote and Hybrid Leadership.

00:01:24:18 - 00:01:54:15
Kevin Eikenberry
If you lead a team that is distributed in any way, this book will give you new skills, new insights, and the confidence to lead more effectively in the new world of work. If you can, learn more and order your copy at Remarkable podcast. Excuse me Kevin eikenberry.com/ldl Kevin I can Broadcom slash LDL. And with that I'm going to bring in my guest and bring him on to the virtual stage if you will and introduce him to you.

00:01:54:21 - 00:02:27:11
Kevin Eikenberry
His name is Pam Zamani. he is an entrepreneur, investor and founder of One Planet Group. He's the author of a book titled Crossing the Desert The Power of Embracing Life's Difficult Journeys. He's born in Iran, was forced to flee at the age of 16, because of his religious beliefs. He and his brother founded Auto Web one of the first online car marketplaces where they which they took public in 1999 at a $1 billion, valuation.

00:02:27:17 - 00:02:48:01
Kevin Eikenberry
Since then, he has built and currently owns multiple technology and media businesses, has invested in more than 90, excuse me, more than 50 companies and is striving to redefine capitalism in an attempt to elevate business to serve humanity. I said to him before we started that this could be five different podcasts. I may have said a bigger number than that.

00:02:48:04 - 00:02:56:10
Kevin Eikenberry
Now, this could be a lot of different things, but I'm so glad to have him with me. Hi and welcome. Thank you for joining us and for writing this great book.

00:02:56:12 - 00:03:00:10
Payam Zamani
Thank you Kevin, it's really good to be here. And thank you for the perfect pronunciation.

00:03:00:10 - 00:03:22:07
Kevin Eikenberry
My name okay, so this has been recorded. So I have actually been successful once at doing that. so listen, usually I ask people tell us about your journey to getting here. But in the intro I kind of gave a hint at the journey. So and we'll talk about that a little bit as we go. Rather, I want to start with this question.

00:03:22:09 - 00:03:28:09
Kevin Eikenberry
why did you write the book? Like why the book? Just talk about that if you would for a second.

00:03:28:11 - 00:03:49:00
Payam Zamani
Yeah. No, that's a really good question. You know, I felt like there were a bunch of different things that were coming together at the same time, both in my life and also in the broader world. on one hand, I felt that there are there's so much hopelessness globally. And, you know, I wanted to write a book that really is a book.

00:03:49:00 - 00:04:13:11
Payam Zamani
Focus on hope. The other thing that was really concerning me was the idea of, you know, from a from somebody who was born outside of the US perspective that there's a light that the US has, that the hope that it represents the rest of the world. And I don't want that light to dim. So I wanted to write from the perspective of somebody who's seen the other side.

00:04:13:13 - 00:04:36:14
Payam Zamani
And now, is a U.S. citizen, and the third one being an entrepreneur. and, seeing so many entrepreneurs kind of like seeking joy from what they do. And, and then the same thing goes for just any professional and wanting that joy from the professional engagement. And I thought there was something there that I could that I could add to the conversation.

00:04:36:16 - 00:04:41:07
Payam Zamani
So the three of them coming together represents the book that I wrote Crossing the Desk.

00:04:41:07 - 00:04:58:14
Kevin Eikenberry
And I want to come back to one of those points later in our conversation. so, the first I have to say is, this is a riveting book, like, for you. As for you, if when you get your copy, everybody, which I hope you do, you will just enjoy reading it. You can almost read it like a novel if you want.

00:04:58:14 - 00:05:24:18
Kevin Eikenberry
And in fact, there could be. I think they have a book written about your dad's story, which we only get a snippet of, in the book in your book, which is fascinating in and of itself. but what I want to do now is, you know, I hinted at it. I said a little bit about it, that you, you came here, sort of, sort of forced to come here, if you will, from, from Iran, when you were 16, if I remember.

00:05:24:18 - 00:05:45:09
Kevin Eikenberry
Right. So, like, tell us a little bit about growing up there, because most of those who are watching or listening ever are from there. So just tell us a little bit about that, that backstory, if you will. I don't want to spend a long time there, but I want people to have context for where we go from there.

00:05:45:11 - 00:06:11:06
Payam Zamani
Yeah. So I was born in Iran and in, I think when I was 8 or 9 years old, the Iranian revolution happened. And some of you may know that Iran used to have a king, and the king was ousted and the religious fundamentalists took over, the government and, they did a lot of things that were bad for the country and for the people of Iran.

00:06:11:08 - 00:06:37:07
Payam Zamani
But one of the things that they did was they made life very difficult for minorities, particularly the followers of the Baha'i Faith. And I happen to be of a high and, they killed many the highs in the 1980s and they, they, expelled by kids from schools, even today, 45 years later, by youth, still don't have the right to attend universities.

00:06:37:08 - 00:07:02:06
Payam Zamani
So growing up in Iran was not easy. You know, an example I shared in my book is that, because our holy places are in Israel. Surprise. You know, most religions, they have their holy places in Israel. so whenever there was a protest going on in our town that was, about Israel or the U.S, people would protest in front of our home as though we were the representatives of the US and Israel.

00:07:02:08 - 00:07:19:11
Payam Zamani
And, so they would come in front of our home and they would say that the Israel that the, you know, USA and so on in front of our home and, you know, so many times in my life I thought that I'm in a situation that I'm not sure if I'm going to get out of this situation alive.

00:07:19:13 - 00:07:33:03
Payam Zamani
And there was one particular one that there's a whole chapter about it in the book called The Bleeding Mile. that basically the way I was expelled from school by a mob, of students, that me you know, in.

00:07:33:03 - 00:07:33:15
Kevin Eikenberry
Some cases.

00:07:33:15 - 00:07:55:18
Payam Zamani
Classmates. Exactly. That they were, they were incited by the religious leader of the school, to expel me and another behavior from school that they, But by expelling. I'm not I'm not suggesting that they will say from now on, please don't show up. No, it's basically that the plan was to kill the Baha'i kids on that day to make sure that they will never return.

00:07:55:20 - 00:08:00:15
Payam Zamani
And, anyhow, so there's a whole chapter about that.

00:08:00:17 - 00:08:23:09
Kevin Eikenberry
spoiler alert he doesn't die. He's right here. so, you mentioned it earlier, and you talk about it in the book that even with that kid hood and even with all of those, all of the tumult and all of the struggle and all of the challenges, that there was something about the U.S. you talked at one point about, in fact, like, I knew the new geography.

00:08:23:13 - 00:08:44:05
Kevin Eikenberry
I knew where the cities were. You never been here. but like, there was what what was it? And I'm not asking you to speak for everyone on the planet, but. But what was it for you, about the U.S., that even long before you even realized that you might eventually be here? What was it about that for you sure.

00:08:44:07 - 00:08:51:01
Payam Zamani
So, I have to let your audience know that I'm not a Republican or a Democrat. I'm truly independent.

00:08:51:01 - 00:08:53:04
Kevin Eikenberry
We're not having that conversation.

00:08:53:04 - 00:09:15:16
Payam Zamani
Exactly. now, now, I'm going to say. But, there is a particular farewell speech of a president that I have made sure my daughters have listened to more than once. And that's the farewell speech of Ronald Reagan when he left, office. It's only about 2 or 3 minutes long, and I would highly encourage you to listen to it.

00:09:15:20 - 00:09:46:06
Payam Zamani
He gave that speech from the Oval Office, and it's a message of hope. And it is not a Partizan message. It's a message about the hope that this country represents. And I think that often we Americans don't fully grasp that. I believe that this country has a spiritual destiny. I believe that there is something spiritual about the privileged position that we have in the world that we represent, hope to the world.

00:09:46:08 - 00:10:06:01
Payam Zamani
If you are a teenager anywhere in the world, if you're a human being, anywhere in the world, and you're being beaten up, your human rights are completely ignored. Who do you have hope in? If you don't have hope in your own country, in your own government, do you have hope in Russia that they're going to save you? They have hope that China is going to save you.

00:10:06:03 - 00:10:25:05
Payam Zamani
The answer is no. You have hope in the United States because at the end of it, at the core of it, there's something about this country that is special. Now, of course, part of it has to do about, with the fact that this country is made up of people from all over the world, including that country. That teenager today is hopeless in.

00:10:25:10 - 00:10:44:10
Payam Zamani
So that way self gives hope. And that is something special about this country that it's funny as as part of my book tour, I was giving the same saying the same thing in Canada. And of course, Canadians are like, well, what about us? And I would say that Canada second to the US represents that. But I think size matters.

00:10:44:10 - 00:10:56:14
Payam Zamani
And this country, because of the impact and the influence it has globally, is in a special position. And I don't like to see that light dimming by us becoming too much of an isolationist.

00:10:56:16 - 00:11:21:01
Kevin Eikenberry
So I already said this once, that this with this episode, this conversation could go lots of different ways. And, and and it would be a wonderful conversation for us to talk all about the crossing of the desert, the that we escape from and all of that. And yet, I want us to go, to another place, not because it's more important, but because where I just where I want us to focus.

00:11:21:03 - 00:11:49:11
Kevin Eikenberry
And that is. So you get here, you're 16, you're in Modesto, California. and somehow you figure out or decide that you want to be an entrepreneur, which at that point you certainly couldn't even have spelled. I'm not sure I can spell it now, but like like, what's the path to from. I'm 16, I'm a refugee. I'm in Modesto, California, to the path of entrepreneurship.

00:11:49:12 - 00:12:17:16
Payam Zamani
Yeah. You know, it's interesting because, you know, there is no question that growing up a behi in Iran, let's keep in mind one of the things that the Iranian government did to the highest was that it expelled them from government jobs, and it also prevented the heights from getting business licenses, which meant to make money, had to have businesses, but they had to be kind of like underground.

00:12:17:18 - 00:12:40:21
Payam Zamani
So the most difficult kind of business you could possibly build. So I think that most guys became entrepreneurs in Iran. But by far it's not by choice. And when I was in the US and I had the freedom, to, to live the life I wanted to live, to practice my religion and so on. there's no question that entrepreneurship was something that I always felt like it was part of my DNA.

00:12:40:21 - 00:12:43:02
Payam Zamani
Now, I went to UCLA.

00:12:43:04 - 00:12:48:08
Kevin Eikenberry
In the book when you were still at home, and kind of got in trouble with your mom. I we won't talk about that there, but.

00:12:48:08 - 00:12:49:08
Payam Zamani
Like, right, right thing.

00:12:49:11 - 00:13:11:02
Kevin Eikenberry
There from long before. Right. But I just think that's such an interesting. Yeah. Because in the intro I say that you and your brother come up with this idea, in the mid 90s. That's right. The internet's here. And, like, somehow you got thinking about cars and you said there's there's there's an opportunity here called that became called auto web.

00:13:11:05 - 00:13:24:08
Kevin Eikenberry
So like, how do you get from working in a pizza place, right, to this idea, like, talk a little bit about sort of how that idea comes to pass and sort of the, the Genesis of all of that.

00:13:24:10 - 00:13:40:19
Payam Zamani
Yeah. No. So I went to UC Davis as a medical student thinking I'm going to become a doctor. But then soon I realized that, you know what that thing that was, that was part of my DNA, entrepreneurship is what I should focus on. And the idea of all the web was basically an idea that my brother had.

00:13:40:21 - 00:13:57:22
Payam Zamani
he is six years older than me, and he had just gotten the job at Microsoft in 1994. And one day he called me, he said, I'm looking to buy a new Honda Accord. And you'd be surprised Honda does not have a website. I'm like, tell me more about it, because I have no idea what you're talking about.

00:13:58:00 - 00:14:20:11
Payam Zamani
I have never been online. I did not, you know, I just have very few people knew what the internet was all about. So he helped me get it. And I love that idea. I love cars, you know, I was 23 at the time, and, I just felt like there is a real opportunity in providing more information about the car that the consumer wanted to buy than the car salesman had.

00:14:20:16 - 00:14:41:11
Payam Zamani
And I thought that could that could level the playing field so consumers could get a good deal. And that became the beginning of what all the web, you know, turned out to be. And looking back, I should have just registered 1000 domains. I would have made more money rather than building a business. We were only the 5000 domain being registered online, so real.

00:14:41:13 - 00:14:42:11
Payam Zamani
yeah, absolutely.

00:14:42:16 - 00:14:44:03
Kevin Eikenberry
That was in the book, I missed it.

00:14:44:05 - 00:14:56:22
Payam Zamani
listen, I could have gone Cars.com, Cars.com autos.com. Anything we got all the way because we thought all those on the web, all the web, and we only got one domain because I bought at least two. But we were like, why do you need to.

00:14:57:00 - 00:15:18:07
Kevin Eikenberry
So I will tell you that I get lots of, we get pitched lots of books, lots of authors to be on the show and, and when I, when I'm vetting them, when I'm looking at the books, I'm doing that sort of thing. I can remember when I got this book and and it's the subtitle, which is the title this episode, The Power of Embracing Life's Difficult Journeys.

00:15:18:13 - 00:15:41:00
Kevin Eikenberry
Like, obviously you've told us enough already about difficult journeys. And yet I think to me, the larger arc of the story here is like, now we're sort of saying, oh, the people are thinking like he he had his difficult journey, like he, he's living the American dream. It's 2000. He's on paper worth a whole lot of money.

00:15:41:02 - 00:16:10:16
Kevin Eikenberry
and we're like, three weeks before he's sharing a room in the motel six right now. So the question is, what is the value of? And there are more challenges in your journey that come after that. But like, let's just talk about that point that was what really drew me to having you on, is this idea that, my wife says, I've never said this outside of like a family like that.

00:16:10:16 - 00:16:33:01
Kevin Eikenberry
I say, like, we are living in the worst ification of America. Like we are all getting soft. Right? And you're saying, no, no. Difficulties and challenges have great value for us. They have power for us. Can you unpack that a little bit because you've lived and yeah. So I think it's a really important thing. First of all, to hear, you know.

00:16:33:03 - 00:16:57:23
Payam Zamani
I, I'm a religious guy and I believe that there's a God. And I do believe that ultimately we're all loved and we are noble beings, that we are all growing towards something greater than who we are today. I believe tests and difficulties are part of that love that God has for us, meaning that through tests and difficulties we become ready for greater achievements in life.

00:16:58:01 - 00:17:20:22
Payam Zamani
How do you make gold pure? You throw it in fire. How do you make humans more pure and get them ready for bigger challenges and bigger opportunities in life is through tests and difficulties and, but the thing about it is that, after every uphill there is downhill. After every downhill, there's an uphill. And that cycle will go on.

00:17:20:22 - 00:17:41:19
Payam Zamani
You'll never stop. The key is that when we are in those moments of challenges, to not have despair because that will pass. It is a moment of opportunity. And when we are having those great climaxes and periods of joy and success, we should get too comfortable either because that will pass as well. That is a cycle of life.

00:17:41:20 - 00:17:56:21
Payam Zamani
Spring is followed by summer, autumn and winter and then the cycle will keep going. So I think that is really important for us to not really be worried about either one of them, or get attached to either one of them and just know that it is part of life.

00:17:56:23 - 00:18:22:06
Kevin Eikenberry
Yeah, I love that. And, and and you said something else there that I was going to bring later, but you said it. So I want to mention that you said you believe in the noble origin of people and what I believe. I share that with you. I talk a lot about potential. Right. Same idea. but what struck me as I was doing my final preparation this morning was this.

00:18:22:08 - 00:18:55:02
Kevin Eikenberry
That, like, it's easy to say that we believe that, but when when if we have lived through what you live through and the way you were persecuted and the things that like, it seems so much more powerful to me to hear you say that than perhaps and for me to say that, if that makes sense. and so say a little bit more about this belief that you hold and, and, and help us think about that just a little bit more, if you would.

00:18:55:04 - 00:19:20:02
Payam Zamani
Yeah. You know, as a fundamental part of my faith, by faith, I believe that there's only one God. There's only one truth, meaning that religions fight with each other for no good reason. Because if there's one God, there cannot be multiple truths. So, so if we believe in that, then we are believing in something pretty profound that all religions, at the end of the day, are part of one progressive revelation.

00:19:20:04 - 00:19:37:06
Payam Zamani
All of them taught us one essential thing that there is a life after death, that we have a soul, and so on. The only thing that changes from one religion to another were the non-essentials. How do you pray? You drink alcohol, you don't drink alcohol. And this and that. They were the non-essentials. No religion ever came that say that you don't have a soul from out.

00:19:37:08 - 00:19:57:23
Payam Zamani
You don't. After death, you're all done. And the point is, they all point at something really important to us. That we are knowable, that we are created, knowable. We are all part of the same spirit. And I think that that is an important thing that, you know, when I talk about business in my book, I try to get to that.

00:19:57:23 - 00:20:23:17
Payam Zamani
We have tried to to take away from our professional engagements, from our business engagements, which means that we have turned our businesses into material only. And as humans, when we are in a material only setting, when we all do our best, because that spiritual part of us, that essence of us that makes us noble, is missing. And what is left is the lowest nature of who we are.

00:20:23:19 - 00:20:49:09
Payam Zamani
And it results in many bad things that doesn't benefit us individually and benefit those that you're supposed to serve to through those businesses. So my hope is that we entrepreneurs, professionals, we're able to say that, you know what those values, those spiritual values. I was my parents tried to teach me that churches try to teach me synagogues and mosques and so on, try to teach me.

00:20:49:11 - 00:21:03:11
Payam Zamani
I'm going to bring them to watch. I'm going to make my life one and the same, whether it's in the morning, during a day, 9 to 5 or after hours on the weekends, I'm going to live one coherent life. And I think that will bring more joy to all of us.

00:21:03:13 - 00:21:24:06
Kevin Eikenberry
And so now I put on for those of you that are watching, obviously you're listening to the podcast. You don't see this, but I put on the at the bottom of the screen, spiritual capitalism. That's your that's your, that's your moniker for what you're describing. So, tell us a little bit more when when you say, hey, I believe you clearly believe in capitalism.

00:21:24:06 - 00:21:42:17
Kevin Eikenberry
We've talked about that enough for people to get that. But you're saying, hey, there's a there's another way for us to look at that. And certainly part of that is bringing our faith, to work is what you've just said. But say a little bit more about what you mean, or how or even what we can do to start to create this idea of spiritual capitalism.

00:21:42:19 - 00:22:10:01
Payam Zamani
Yeah. You know, the capitalism that we are practicing today is a Milton Friedman version of capitalism, that really care about in the 80s, that was the era of Gordon Gekko from the movie Wall Street that is good. And Wall Street hasn't really changed. If anything, if you just look at, the, you know, the fact that now even 100 billion is not enough, people have to be worth hundreds of billions of dollars and so on.

00:22:10:03 - 00:22:29:16
Payam Zamani
There is no question that greed is getting to a point that's untenable. And the question is, how did we get here? And why is it that we have this never ending thirst, for more money? Well, let me part of it has to do with the fact that when we took spirituality out of our professional engagements, we only left the material in it.

00:22:29:20 - 00:22:31:05
Kevin Eikenberry
That's all. That's all right.

00:22:31:06 - 00:23:04:09
Payam Zamani
We all became value based on how much money we have. We all started getting value based on how much of the goods of this world we can consume. I mean, think about that are worth became based on how much we can consume. And, well, that left us kind of empty. I talked about it in my book that when I took all the way public in 1999 and the company became 1.2 billion, I'm embarrassed to say that the first thing that came through my mind was, now I need to build something bigger.

00:23:04:11 - 00:23:33:08
Payam Zamani
Now I need to build a bigger company, sell for a higher value than 1.2 billion, go public for more than 1.2 billion. Why? Because I was eating the same dog food that we were all eating that that is how my success is measured. And frankly, I think that the fact that I lost almost everything I earned through all the work was humbling and prepared me for doing something better with my life, which was understanding what will bring true joy.

00:23:33:08 - 00:23:50:00
Payam Zamani
Now. I built bigger companies, I have I I've done well financially, but I think I've done well as a result of losing what I made through all the web. And that test and difficulty was worth, I think, where I am today and,

00:23:50:01 - 00:23:50:19
Kevin Eikenberry
And so bring.

00:23:50:19 - 00:23:51:06
Payam Zamani
Everyone.

00:23:51:07 - 00:23:57:05
Kevin Eikenberry
Back to ups and downs, like, that's right. You've gotten to where you are today. Without that, I would propose.

00:23:57:05 - 00:24:14:18
Payam Zamani
No, I don't think so. I don't I don't think I would have I think that was a bit as a 27, 28 year old when I made $200 million making that company public. That could have only corrupted me without having a better understanding of what brings true joy. What are the spiritual values that I'm truly committed to?

00:24:14:22 - 00:24:30:00
Payam Zamani
And I think without those as an entrepreneur and we're seeing this over and over again with all kinds of businesses and entrepreneurs and professionals that we seek more as seeking more by itself is not going to bring us that joy of seeking.

00:24:30:02 - 00:24:51:04
Kevin Eikenberry
Yeah, I love that. So, a lot of people watch this, listen to this show, looking for specific tips and ideas and, and we talk about that a lot here. And that's certainly what, is useful. And yet, everything we've said so far, I think is, is extremely powerful. And I hope that all of you can take from that.

00:24:51:04 - 00:25:21:14
Kevin Eikenberry
And yet there is a piece of your book where you talk about what you call the principles of people first, leadership and, and we don't have time PM to unlock all six. so I'm going to pick one, and then I'll let you pick one. Right. So six and I'm going to pick the reason I'm picking this one is because right now back to the politics of, the world, that there's been a lot of discussion about this word in the last 2 or 3 weeks, and that word is unity.

00:25:21:20 - 00:25:40:16
Kevin Eikenberry
So when you talk about unity as a people first leader, I'm pretty confident you're thinking about I know you're thinking about a little bit differently than it's been thrown around a little bit in the last couple weeks, even though I think it's great that that word has been thrown around. I'd like to know what you mean by that and how it relates to your thinking about being a more in unity.

00:25:40:16 - 00:26:03:08
Payam Zamani
Yeah. So, you know, I believe that collective success can only come about through unity. otherwise, we're not going to get that unity doesn't mean that we all agree clash of ideals are absolutely fine and necessary, but clash of people is not. So I can be against your idea, but I cannot be against you. That's unnecessary. It's just an idea that I may have a problem with, but not you.

00:26:03:10 - 00:26:20:16
Payam Zamani
You are the same noble being I was just talking about, you know, with the soul and so on. And I think that that is a difference that I want to see within my team and hopefully within a country like the US, that we allow for clash of ideas, we should allow for that. But ultimately, I look at you would love that.

00:26:20:16 - 00:26:28:10
Payam Zamani
A noble being requires and, I deserves it. And but I'm not against you in any shape or form.

00:26:28:12 - 00:26:59:13
Kevin Eikenberry
It makes me think of one of my favorite stories. And it is a is a political related story. Is that Ronald Reagan, when he was president, the speaker of the House was tip O'Neill, who politically they were far apart, and yet, famously, they had lunch once a week. And the and I'd heard that for years. And, you know, they, they, they made a lot of good things happen and they and they, their ideas clashed and yet but the thing that I just read recently and maybe you've heard this new you have it is that, they used to say sometimes when they're in the middle of all those conversations, when is it going

00:26:59:13 - 00:27:16:13
Kevin Eikenberry
to be 5:00 so we can go back to being friends? Like, I just love that line. Like, okay, we can, we can, we can disagree and we can work hard and we can focus on how to convince the other. And yet there's something underneath it. And that to me is that idea of that unity of spirit, unity of overall purpose.

00:27:16:18 - 00:27:19:11
Kevin Eikenberry
Like we can disagree on the how.

00:27:19:13 - 00:27:24:11
Payam Zamani
That's right. Absolutely. But I don't need to beat you down as a human being. There's no need for that.

00:27:24:17 - 00:27:34:12
Kevin Eikenberry
Absolutely. so now I'll let you pick one of the other five to just sort of, talk about for a second or two, and then we'll move on in tension.

00:27:34:14 - 00:27:57:16
Payam Zamani
that that's my favorite. And, you know, people often ask me, what do you think about, about AI, are you afraid of AI? And my answer is there is no technology. There is no advancement. I'm afraid of. I'm afraid of the innovator because it is the intention of the innovator that will determine the outcome. And we have this conversation in my company quite often.

00:27:57:20 - 00:28:33:15
Payam Zamani
What's the intention behind everything that we choose to do? so let's say that if you want to spend money on something, you want to build a new product. What's the intention behind that? I'll give you a good example. I have two daughters. They are in 18 years, and, they are on Snapchat. Snapchat recently made, a service solution available on the on the app that allows you, in a sense, to see your rating compared to your friends on Snapchat, that if you and I have friends on Snapchat, I'm on your fifth closest friend, or the first, closest friend or second, and so on.

00:28:33:17 - 00:29:05:00
Payam Zamani
So I am going to assume that if you truly ask Snapchat, what was the intention? Intention was money, nothing else. But what about mental health of those kids who are using the app? Did that ever come about that that was a discussed. So I think that that intention is really key. And we got to make sure that the intention behind our work includes serving humanity, ensuring that we generate profit without a loss for humanity.

00:29:05:05 - 00:29:08:11
Payam Zamani
I think that has to become part of the equation.

00:29:08:12 - 00:29:29:01
Kevin Eikenberry
So one of the very first things that you said, relates to the one of the one of the final questions I have for you, our backgrounds are and our stories are very different. Right? We come from a different place. but and yet, having read your book and now having had the chance to talk with you, I think we have a whole lot in common.

00:29:29:03 - 00:29:51:20
Kevin Eikenberry
And one of the things that we have in common is that we both have hope in the future of America. And so you said earlier, quite eloquently that that we need to remember, remember that. But in this time, as you said, where there is a lot of hopelessness, not just in the US but around the world, like, why do you have that stronghold?

00:29:51:22 - 00:30:00:05
Kevin Eikenberry
What what is it that says to you that that light that you saw when you were a ten year old, is still there.

00:30:00:07 - 00:30:21:04
Payam Zamani
So, you know, the same way that when I face, tests and difficulties, I knew that something better is going there is going to come about and will be on the other side of it. I think countries are no different. Humanity is no different. There is no question that there is a climax that we are going towards both, in this country.

00:30:21:06 - 00:30:43:18
Payam Zamani
And I would say that globally we're going towards that climax. And I think that there is a chastening that is associated with that, that prepares us for greatness, for a better future. And, so I truly believe in that. I think that this country has a spiritual destiny. And I think that, we will get ready for it, will prepare for it.

00:30:43:23 - 00:30:59:09
Payam Zamani
But before we get there, we need to be spiritually ready for it. And that readiness comes as a result of us experiencing tests and difficulties. And whether we like it or not, we're very good at creating more tests and difficulties for ourselves. So that's guaranteed. We'll have a lot of that in front of us.

00:30:59:11 - 00:31:13:20
Kevin Eikenberry
Awesome. So, I have two questions that I always ask, and this one is seems a little out of place after the last one, but I'm going to ask it anyway. what do you do for fun?

00:31:13:22 - 00:31:31:20
Payam Zamani
So I'm very transparent. so, and I tell this to people quite I, you know, every now and then they say, does that go against the stuff that you believe in and you stand for? I love flying planes. And so I do fly. I do fly, you know, quite a bit. And that's something I really enjoy doing.

00:31:31:22 - 00:31:50:00
Payam Zamani
And, it is it, it's. Yeah. It's not good for the environment. I'm really, really sorry about that. And I try to make up for it in other ways. But I do enjoy flying, partly because it helps me learn continually and learn continually, because if you're a pilot, you're never done learning. so I really enjoy that.

00:31:50:01 - 00:31:57:19
Kevin Eikenberry
Awesome. And the only thing you knew I was going to ask you for sure is this question, what are you what are you reading? Or what's something you've read recently?

00:31:57:20 - 00:32:22:03
Payam Zamani
So the book that, recently came out in the last 12 months, and I really love the book. it's by a good friend of mine, Rainn Wilson, Rainn Wilson is Dwight from The Office? and he wrote a book called Soul Boom. And, it's, sold on white. We need a spiritual revolution. And, it basically talks about, you know, all of these stress and difficulties that we are experiencing.

00:32:22:08 - 00:32:45:10
Payam Zamani
You know, the real answer to it is a spiritual revolution. How else we're going to solve the problems of the world? You know, you cannot make me not racist through laws. You cannot make me, you know, and, caring for the environment through laws. Ultimately, I have to want it from within, from my heart. And that comes through a spiritual revolution or evolution of the human.

00:32:45:12 - 00:33:00:02
Kevin Eikenberry
So, you know, you came here because you have a book out. So I suppose we should talk about this question like where can people connect with you? if they want a copy of the book, where should they go? Like where do you want to point people? Before we wrap up?

00:33:00:04 - 00:33:22:09
Payam Zamani
So luckily, my book is available anywhere. Books are sold. Crossing the desert. and you can look that up. And please read the book and please leave a, you know, leave your feedback, on, on Amazon. And you can reach out to me on LinkedIn, Instagram, poems of money, no space, no nothing, just lines of money.

00:33:22:11 - 00:33:26:05
Payam Zamani
And, I respond to almost everybody.

00:33:26:07 - 00:33:49:13
Kevin Eikenberry
All right. Thank you. Time for being here. It was a pleasure to have you. but before we go, before I say goodbye to you and to all of the audience, I want to ask all of you the question I ask every single week. And it is. Now what? Now that you've listened, now that you've had the chance to absorb the conversation, that we've had to get some wisdom and insight and perspective from them.

00:33:49:13 - 00:34:14:04
Kevin Eikenberry
The question is, what are you going to do? and maybe you're going to think a little differently about intention. Maybe this leaves you with a slightly different view of challenge. maybe that's where you're at now. Maybe right now you're on the mountaintop. And the question is, how does that how does today's conversation help you think about what comes next, whatever it is that you took from this?

00:34:14:05 - 00:34:37:00
Kevin Eikenberry
And I do know that today's episode has been a little bit more philosophical, a little less sort of tactical. And yet this question is still important. Like what action will you take as a result of this conversation? Because until you ask and answer that question, this will never be as valuable as it could have been. So Pam Zamani, thank you so much for being here.

00:34:37:00 - 00:34:52:20
Kevin Eikenberry
It's a pleasure. Absolutely a pleasure to have you. It's a joy to have the chance to to meet you. One of the great things about doing this podcast, everybody is I get to, I get to, to chat with and get to know at least a little bit the people that are, making a difference in the world through their writing and their work.

00:34:52:20 - 00:35:12:09
Kevin Eikenberry
And so thanks for being here. It's a pleasure to have you, for all of you that were here. If this was your first time. Glad you came. If this is your 55th time, I'm glad you're back. and whichever it is, I hope that you enjoyed it enough that you want to be back next week. Because next week, we'll be back right here with another episode of the remarkable Thank You, Sam podcast.

00:35:12:10 - 00:35:13:03
Kevin Eikenberry
Thanks, everybody.