The Remarkable Leadership Podcast

00:00:08:10 - 00:00:38:12
Kevin Eikenberry
Few people would say that they want to be led by a command and control leader. Yet we see them everywhere and some say they don't want to be one. But the question is what is my option? Today, we will give you language and ideas for that other option. With the help of a multi-time bestselling author, welcome to another episode of the Remarkable Leadership Podcast, where we are helping leaders grow personally and professionally to lead more effectively make a bigger difference for their teams, organizations and the world.

00:00:38:14 - 00:01:01:14
Kevin Eikenberry
If you are listening to this podcast, you could be with us live for future episodes like I am right now. And you can do that by joining us on your favorite social channel. And the way to do that is to get connected with one of our groups so that you can find all that out. You can do that on our Facebook group or our LinkedIn group, although you don't have to only watch in those locations.

00:01:01:19 - 00:01:25:23
Kevin Eikenberry
You can learn more by joining those groups at either remarkable podcast dot com slash Facebook or remarkable podcast dot com slash LinkedIn. Hope you will do those things. Today's episode is brought to you by our remarkable master classes pick from 13 important life and leadership skills to help you become more effective, productive and confident while overcoming some of the leader's toughest challenges.

00:01:26:00 - 00:01:47:07
Kevin Eikenberry
Learn more and sign up at Remarkable Masterclass dot com. Our guest today is Steven m r Covey. I'm going to bring him in then let me introduce him. I see some comments have come in. I'll get those up in a second. Let me introduce him to you. He's probably one of the people that's here that you've heard of before.

00:01:47:11 - 00:02:11:00
Kevin Eikenberry
He maybe he doesn't need any introduction. I'm going to give you one anyway. Stephen Moore is the New York Times, Best New York Times and Wall Street Journal, best selling author of The Speed of Trust, a phenomenal book which has been translated into 26 languages and sold over 2 million copies worldwide. He's also the author of another bestseller, Trust and Inspire How to Excuse Me, How truly Great Leaders Inspire Greatness in Others.

00:02:11:02 - 00:02:35:16
Kevin Eikenberry
And that's what we're talking about today. He brings to his writings the perspective of a practitioner as he is a former president and CEO, CEO of the Covey Leadership Center, where he increase shareholder value 67 times and grew the company to become the largest leadership development firm in the world. A Harvard MBA he co-founded and currently leads Franklin Covey Global Speed of trust Practice.

00:02:35:18 - 00:03:08:02
Kevin Eikenberry
He serves on numerous boards, including the Government Leadership Advisory Council, and he's been recognized with the Lifetime Achievement Award for top thought leaders and trust from trust across America, trust around the world. And I'm going to tell you right now that if you're watching the podcast, excuse me, listen to podcast and you respond to me by the end of February 2024, you have a chance to win this copy of this new book, hardcover copy, not the one that I worked from, but one that I'm going to send to someone the way you get entered.

00:03:08:02 - 00:03:26:21
Kevin Eikenberry
And you can do that, whether you're watching this live now or listening to podcast is to send me a note on LinkedIn and say, Kevin Enemy in the drawing for a copy of Trust and Inspire. I hope you'll do that. Going to my LinkedIn, you see my name, that's how you find me on LinkedIn. Go ahead and do that.

00:03:26:21 - 00:03:32:03
Kevin Eikenberry
So without any further ado, Stephen, welcome.

00:03:32:05 - 00:03:41:17
Stephen MR Covey
Hey, thank you so much, Kevin. I'm really excited to be with you and with all of our guest today who had this conversation. So thank you for inviting me to be part of this.

00:03:41:21 - 00:04:09:15
Kevin Eikenberry
All right. We've got Boston and New Hampshire and Texas and who knows who else. Let's see what else we got here. This topic couldn't come at a better time. That's a good that's a good way to lead us in that. Daniel, thank you for for reading my notes. So, Stephen, before we get I want to talk about why this book, but before we get there, just really quickly, we all know knew who your dad was.

00:04:09:17 - 00:04:20:05
Kevin Eikenberry
That's that's a part of your life. I know. But tell us a little bit about your journey, how you end up doing this work, and specifically how your work ends up being focused around trust.

00:04:20:07 - 00:04:50:07
Stephen MR Covey
Yeah, Great. Great. Well, thank you. Yes. Well, so I am the son of Dr. Stephen Covey, who wrote the Seven Habits. And I'll just let me just say this, if I could, upfront about about my father, because a lot of people have read that book and been influenced by the book or by him. And what I would say this, it's as good as my father was in in public, as a speaker, as an author, and he was very good.

00:04:50:09 - 00:04:51:22
Kevin Eikenberry
He was very good as.

00:04:51:22 - 00:05:11:18
Stephen MR Covey
Good as he was in public. He was even better in private, as it has been to my mother as a father, to his kids. He was the real deal. He was who you thought he was. And that's maybe the kindest and most accurate tribute I can give to him. Is that as good as he was in public, he was even better in private.

00:05:11:20 - 00:05:37:16
Stephen MR Covey
And so I feel very blessed and grateful to have been raised by him and by my mother. And so that's part of my journey is is having having mentors like that. And what a blessing that was for me. And so my my path took me. How I ended up getting into trust is that, you know, I became the CEO of the Cavendish Ship Center and we went all around the world.

00:05:37:18 - 00:06:05:06
Stephen MR Covey
Then we did a merger with our arch competitor at the time, at the time, Franklin Quest to form Franklin Covey. And these were great people with, you know, coming from both both companies, great values and everything. But we've been competitors. And so we were kind of had different views of the world. And now we're together and there's little trust, not so much that we done things to each other, but we just saw the world differently.

00:06:05:06 - 00:06:31:07
Stephen MR Covey
We'd been competing for years, sat there was low trust, and I saw how with this low trust, everything slowed down, Everything cost more. Everything got kind of got interpreted and politicized and the like. And suddenly we were not as creative and in as collaborative, we became internally focused and I began to see firsthand and witness the high cost of low trust.

00:06:31:09 - 00:06:52:21
Stephen MR Covey
And the value of the merger was not going to achieve what it was capable of achieving. If that stayed that way. So we began began to become intentional and deliberate about saying, you know what, We can't just assume trust. We have to work on building it explicitly, intentionally, on purpose with each other. And we began to do that.

00:06:52:22 - 00:07:25:23
Stephen MR Covey
And when we when we began to behave away and a greater trust, the trust did in fact, grow. And once we increased the trust and suddenly our collaboration went up dramatically, our creativity, our innovation, we could move fast. We were far more valuable added value adding to clients and customers. Everything changed, and I kind of came away from that whole experience just with some observations as having witnessed kind of the high cost of low trust and the great returns and and benefits that dividends of high trust.

00:07:26:01 - 00:07:46:12
Stephen MR Covey
And I came away saying, you know, trust matters and we all know that. But I think we're underestimating how much it matters by a factor of ten, maybe by a factor of a hundred. Trust matters. Trust is learnable. You can move the needle on trust. You can build it intentionally. And there's nothing more high leverage that we can do today.

00:07:46:14 - 00:08:08:03
Stephen MR Covey
And I looked around and I felt like most of the stuff on trust was either too soft, you know? You know, you know, like trust everyone or too academic and not practical and tangible enough. And suddenly I felt like, this is what I want to say. I found my voice because I was a little reluctant to follow in my father's footsteps.

00:08:08:05 - 00:08:11:22
Kevin Eikenberry
That just says, Put your father's name, for heaven's sakes.

00:08:12:02 - 00:08:37:16
Stephen MR Covey
That got his name. And, you know, no matter what I write, it's not going to be the seven habits. It's just the reality. And and so I was a little reluctant. But once I found my voice around trust that this is a big idea that we can get so much better at, Then suddenly the fear dissipated and I felt emboldened and really inspired to proceed down that path.

00:08:37:16 - 00:09:04:22
Stephen MR Covey
So I wrote the speed of trust, which is really reflecting these learnings and insights and then Smart trust and now this new book, Trust and Inspire, which is a leadership book. So that's kind of my journey. And it came about from my own crucible of being in the middle of this merger and experiencing firsthand the high cost of low trust, but then turning around and seeing the great return of high trust and saying, Well, what if we could get really good at this on purpose?

00:09:05:04 - 00:09:06:05
Stephen MR Covey
That was the idea.

00:09:06:07 - 00:09:36:00
Kevin Eikenberry
And in and I love that. And, you know, when I introduced you, I said, you come at your writing from the perspective of a practitioner, which is exactly what you just said again. And I think that's why speed one of the reasons why Speed of Trust resonated so well and why I believe this new book also a best seller, Trust and Inspire, is so valuable, is because it comes at it from a very practical perspective, although it does help us lift our eyes to see something that perhaps we aren't thinking about or thinking about in the best way.

00:09:36:02 - 00:09:59:17
Kevin Eikenberry
I opened by using this phrase command and control. And it's one of the pieces of this book, right? Like we've been leading by some version of command and control, at least not everyone, but societally by this model for a very long time. And so let's start there before we offer the alternative by saying, What do you mean when you say that?

00:09:59:17 - 00:10:02:18
Kevin Eikenberry
I don't make sure we're all on the same page before we go on.

00:10:02:20 - 00:10:29:16
Stephen MR Covey
Yeah, it's just kind of the more traditional style of leadership, the more top down hierarchical kind of what we've grown up with. And and I'm just kind of putting it in those three words, command and control to capture it. But I'm acknowledging that we've made a lot of progress within that command and control paradigm. And, you know, there was the authoritarian command and control kind of flown out of the industrial age.

00:10:29:16 - 00:10:58:07
Stephen MR Covey
That's the real focus on efficiency and and scientific management and all these things. And that was helpful in its time. But there was not enough focus on people. So it began to be focused more on people and added things like emotional intelligence and strengths and mission and trustworthiness. And that was all really good. And the problem is for for most, we didn't shift the paradigm, the mindset of how we view people, how we view leadership.

00:10:58:09 - 00:11:04:16
Stephen MR Covey
So it just became a more enlightened command and control, which is a far better version of it, right?

00:11:04:22 - 00:11:27:17
Kevin Eikenberry
For sure. But part of what you're suggesting here, and I think the first piece of big value is to give us the alternative, like more than just sort of and you use this idea in the book of a continuum, like instead of just sort of moving in a direction which is what you've just described, you're saying if command and control is on this end, we've got to describe what's on the other end.

00:11:27:17 - 00:11:39:02
Kevin Eikenberry
So the title sort of gives it away. But what's the alternative then? The true alternative, not just the incremental improvement, What's the true alternative to command and control?

00:11:39:04 - 00:12:08:05
Stephen MR Covey
It's trust and inspire. Again, three words and trying to drive parallel command and control, trust and inspire. And that starts from the premise of a partnership and in is moving into the whole realm of inspiration as opposed to motivation. You know, command and control tends to be motivation, external, extrinsic, So heavy carrot and stick motivation rewards, nothing wrong with it, just incomplete and just insufficient.

00:12:08:07 - 00:12:34:04
Stephen MR Covey
Whereas inspirations, internal, intrinsic, it's inside of people. We're trying to light the fire within. And that fire once that we can burn on for months, if not years, without the need for constant external stimuli. So yes, I believe that the future of leadership is moving from some form of command and control, even the enlightened version of it, depression Inspire, which I believe is different in kind, not just different in degree.

00:12:34:06 - 00:12:59:06
Stephen MR Covey
You know, you move within the paradigm of command and control, and enlightened is different in degree. Much better version, but we need to kind of cross the chasm, if you will, take the leap in a sense, different and contrasting is fire, which really views people as whole, people with greatness inside of them. And our job as a leader is not to try to control them, to unleash them and see the potential in their talent and so forth.

00:12:59:11 - 00:13:24:02
Kevin Eikenberry
Yeah, I love that idea, the idea of unleashing potential, which we can't unleash potential if we don't if we don't see it and people can't unleash it if they don't see it. And so I was going to go there later, but you just sort of led us there. So underneath of this alternative of trust and inspire are some beliefs.

00:13:24:04 - 00:13:48:04
Kevin Eikenberry
And and I and you hinted at a couple of them and I'm going to I'm going to give you the chance to just sort of lay them out. I'll put it across the screen and then then we'll talk about them a little bit. So here we go. The five beliefs that you think are needed, or we could call them at least one called mindsets that we need in order to really make this shift.

00:13:48:06 - 00:13:49:20
Kevin Eikenberry
Right. So what are they?

00:13:49:22 - 00:14:15:12
Stephen MR Covey
Starts and starts with this mindset, these beliefs. Collectively, this comprises a paradigm, and a paradigm came from the Greek right that paradigmatic which means a mental map or model. So it's trying to be a map that describes the territory. But you could have an inaccurate map. Think of the early cartographers and their maps of the world. You know, they kind of got parts of it, but it's incomplete, inaccurate map.

00:14:15:14 - 00:14:37:16
Stephen MR Covey
So we've often operated with an incomplete or inaccurate map of people and of leadership. These five fundamental beliefs collectively comprise a more complete, more accurate map of both people and a leadership. So here's what they are. First, I believe that people have greatness inside of them. I know this is one of the things that you talk about right, About Kevin.

00:14:37:18 - 00:14:47:07
Stephen MR Covey
The people have greatness inside of them. So if I buy that belief, my job as a leader is to unleash their potential, not to control them.

00:14:47:09 - 00:14:53:23
Kevin Eikenberry
Right. And if I believe that I don't need to command them, I can trust.

00:14:54:01 - 00:15:22:23
Stephen MR Covey
I can trust them because they have greatness inside them. I'm trying to I try to I start by trying to see the greatness because, like it was Emerson who said no, Thoreau is not what you look at. That matters. It's what you see. You see the greatness of people and and such that you can then communicate the greatness to them so that they come to see it in themselves and develop it genuinely.

00:15:23:01 - 00:15:24:16
Stephen MR Covey
And you can trust them.

00:15:24:18 - 00:15:46:23
Kevin Eikenberry
The alternative is if we don't see it, we won't. We will lead people toward it. Right? And if we don't see it, then then the whole idea of trust and inspire rings hollow. Because how can we trust them if we don't see the greatness in them? So the second of the five is I love that, by the way.

00:15:47:00 - 00:16:17:06
Stephen MR Covey
Yes, wonderful. I believe that people are whole people, meaning body, heart, mind, spirit. So if I buy that belief, then my job as a leader is to inspire, not merely motivate. Now, look at people. We're just economic beings only, you know, just the body. Then motivation would be sufficient. You know, just pay him. That's enough. But in addition to a body.

00:16:17:08 - 00:16:37:22
Stephen MR Covey
So they want to be paid. That's inappropriate. You need to do it. But they also have a heart. So they want to connect and to care and to belong. They have a mind. So they want to grow and develop and and improve. And they have a spirit. So they want to contribute and make a difference and matter and have significance.

00:16:38:00 - 00:17:02:23
Stephen MR Covey
So inspiring can take you to a whole different place beyond mere motivating. Only because they're whole people and they bring their whole steps to work. So that's how I view people as whole, people with greatness inside of them. So that's a more complete and expansive view, and I believe accurate view of people, then a more limited view that says, hey, maybe a few people have greatness inside of them.

00:17:02:23 - 00:17:19:08
Stephen MR Covey
They're called high potentials, but nobody else has, you know, or very few do. So I got to control everybody else. And, you know, and, you know, and others might say, you know what, at the end of the day, people are just economic being. So just pay. It's all about pay. No, that's a factor.

00:17:19:10 - 00:17:23:19
Kevin Eikenberry
But it's not the whole it's not the whole it's not the whole matter.

00:17:23:21 - 00:17:53:13
Stephen MR Covey
Right. Exactly. So that's a more complete view of people hope people with greatness inside of them. Everyone believes the next three or how I view leadership. So number three, I believe that there is enough for everyone that's in a abundance mentality as opposed to a scarcity mentality. So if I buy that belief, then my job as a leader is to elevate caring above competing.

00:17:53:15 - 00:18:34:17
Stephen MR Covey
Yes, let's compete in the marketplace, but let us care and collaborate in the workplace. But oftentimes, rather than abundance, people are scripted with scarcity. They have to compete with each other inside the workforce itself, and it flows out of a scarcity mindset. So I think, yes, scarcity might be good economic theory, but I believe that scarcity is lousy leadership theory because I think there's an abundance of everything that is good that we're seeking, of respect, of empathy, of compassion, of commitment, of creativity, of innovation, of trust, of inspiration.

00:18:34:19 - 00:19:02:12
Kevin Eikenberry
If you take all of that list of things you just said, we would all agree that the more caring there is, the more caring there will be and the more trust there is, the more trust there will be. And the more innovation there is, the more innovation there will be. So like by definition, we know this if we stop and really think about it, but if we look at the world like someone's going to win and someone's going to lose, like on the football field, much as we might enjoy watching that, or in my case, basketball.

00:19:02:14 - 00:19:14:19
Kevin Eikenberry
The reality is it isn't. That isn't the way the world is if we see the world in this way. So the second of the three beliefs about leadership is what.

00:19:14:21 - 00:19:55:00
Stephen MR Covey
I believe that leadership is stewardship, meaning is about responsibility, not rights, influence, not position. So if I buy that belief, then my job as a leader is to put service above self-interest. And here's the irony, Kevin, in the process of doing so. Self-interest is usually served, but it put service above self-interest. Why? Because I'm a steward, and I believe that this idea that we are stewards as leaders and that leadership is about stewardship, responsible, that's implicit, inherent with being a leader as opposed to rights that come with being a leader.

00:19:55:02 - 00:20:30:18
Stephen MR Covey
So I see myself as a steward and have a stewardship for those that I am serving. And then finally, the fifth one, I believe that enduring influence is created from the inside out. So if I buy that belief, then my job as a leader is to go first. Someone needs to go first. Leaders go first. So if they want more respect, they're the first to demonstrate and show the respect They want more openness, more transparency, more vulnerable, more vulnerable.

00:20:30:20 - 00:20:40:06
Stephen MR Covey
Vulnerability are the first to be open, transparent and vulnerable. They go first. They want more trust. They're the first to give trust.

00:20:40:08 - 00:20:45:14
Kevin Eikenberry
If they want the group. If they want the organization to be more positive, they've got to go. We could go right on down.

00:20:45:16 - 00:21:04:22
Stephen MR Covey
Go on. They go first. There. They work inside out, meaning they always look in the mirror. They start with themselves versus outsider in which is pointing the finger. As soon as they change, he changes, he changes. Then we can do this soon as a CEO is changes the board, you know, the market. Those are all factors. They're all real.

00:21:05:00 - 00:21:34:04
Stephen MR Covey
But an outside in is not how that's how we diagnose, but how we change, develop and transform is always inside out. And it's certainly true for us as leaders. So those five fundamental beliefs collectively comprise a more accurate and more complete, a more relevant and expansive paradigm of people and of leadership that tell you shift the paradigm, you're still in incremental improvement within a flawed, limited paradigm, you know, of command and control of some version of it.

00:21:34:06 - 00:21:41:16
Stephen MR Covey
But this is a more expansive paradigm of trust and inspires viewing people in a whole different in kind way. It's a sea change.

00:21:41:18 - 00:22:19:03
Kevin Eikenberry
It's a sea change. And and I really wanted to focus on the beliefs. And I'm going to ask a couple more questions here before we start to wrap up, because that the the value in this book, Trust and Inspire, starts with those beliefs. And so if you're listening or watching and and and you're nodding, if you're saying, yeah, I'm with you on that, or maybe I don't always live it, but I believe those things, then the book gives you the roadmap on what to do, but it has to start with those beliefs.

00:22:19:07 - 00:22:34:00
Kevin Eikenberry
And that's why I wanted to, to, to lead with the beliefs, because that sets the table. Ultimately, if you don't buy those beliefs that Stephen just shared, this book is going to be of limited value to. You agree?

00:22:34:02 - 00:22:35:02
Stephen MR Covey
Yes.

00:22:35:04 - 00:22:39:08
Kevin Eikenberry
And that's not what you wanted me to say. I know you're talking.

00:22:39:10 - 00:23:16:07
Stephen MR Covey
Yeah, ultimately it does, saying that this is a more complete and relevant and expensive way of looking at people in the leadership. And and here's what I would say is that, you know, if I could paraphrase my friend Marshall Goldsmith, you know, what got us here won't get us there. So the kind of leadership that might have got us to where we are today might have been a version of command and control is not going to be the kind of leadership that's going to need to take us to where we need to go tomorrow with all the change and disruption going on with these younger generations.

00:23:16:09 - 00:23:43:08
Stephen MR Covey
And, you know, Gen Z and this upcoming alpha generation, which is completely different expectations with, you know, work from home hybrid, remote options that didn't exist a few years ago. With all these choices, we've got to lead in a new way. A new world of work requires a new way to lead. So we need to shift to stay relevant because the old command and control model, even the enlightened version, is becoming increasingly less and less relevant.

00:23:43:10 - 00:23:49:17
Stephen MR Covey
So hopefully that if maybe someone could buy that, then they could say, So let me take a look at these beliefs.

00:23:49:17 - 00:23:50:13
Kevin Eikenberry
Exactly.

00:23:50:15 - 00:24:11:10
Stephen MR Covey
Yeah, but here's what I would say this on the beliefs. Like, you know, my guess is most of your viewers and listeners, because of the nature of this, you know, this is the Remarkable leadership podcast. So you're talking about remarkable leadership, which I think is trust inspire leadership. So the listeners are kind of attuned to this and they're hearing this from you and from your guests.

00:24:11:12 - 00:24:41:05
Stephen MR Covey
And so my guess is most people would say, I buy I buy those beliefs. But here's what happens sometimes. Sometimes our style can get in the way of our intent. So we might buy the belief that sometimes when the pressures on is very easy for us down to get in the way of our intent. You know, we've got to close the quarters, drop, the pressure's on to get the results, get the numbers, and suddenly we move into command and control because we it's our native tongue.

00:24:41:07 - 00:24:58:21
Stephen MR Covey
We know it. We're good at it. It's what we're raised in and the pressures on, we revert to it. You know, if I if I'm learning a new language and practicing the language every day, but then I take a hammer and I miss the nail and I hit my thumb, I'm going to curse out in my native tongue language.

00:24:59:02 - 00:25:01:00
Kevin Eikenberry
We're going to curse out in Korean, right? Or whatever.

00:25:01:00 - 00:25:27:08
Stephen MR Covey
That's right. That's right. Because because of the thrashes on and oftentimes our style gets in the way of our intent. And a personal note on this, I learned this from my kids later and where my style gets in the way of my intent. We go on a family vacation. You know, I got five kids. They got all these kids running around and and said, I get nervous around airports because I know everything that can go wrong and you got to be there on time.

00:25:27:08 - 00:25:44:07
Stephen MR Covey
The plane's going to leave with or without you. And so we go to the airport and here I believe in the greatness of my children, that they're capable of responsible. But you wouldn't know it to watch me in an airport because suddenly we go there and I turn into this command and control. Dad, that's just barking out orders.

00:25:44:11 - 00:26:06:17
Stephen MR Covey
No, no, no, no, no. No one's going to go eat. You're going to stay here at the gate. And you know, you can't go shopping and I'm just controlling their every move. What I learned later, Kevin, is that my kids came up with the name, their nickname for this, and they would say, Hey, everyone, Dad's got airport face, and airport face means I'm all freaked out.

00:26:06:19 - 00:26:26:04
Stephen MR Covey
I'm just barking out orders and commands everyone and here we are going on vacation and nobody is having any fun but that. You know, my style is getting in the way of my intent. My intent is I do believe in my kids, but the pressure's on and I revert to this heavy handed style. And you have a home.

00:26:26:04 - 00:26:46:09
Kevin Eikenberry
Alone moment right now. So so, you know, you hinted at this. You went back to say you answered part of the question of why is this so important now? And you talked about this. And in the book you talk about five factors. You talk and you hinted at them in the first four of them, I think pretty much everyone would say, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

00:26:46:09 - 00:27:09:22
Kevin Eikenberry
The world's changing, the work's changing, the workplace is changing, the nature of the workforce is changing. But the last one of those five is the one I want you to say a little bit more about, because it, it fascinated me and it and it illuminated to me in a new way, I think something important. And you said so the the last of those sort of reasons why we have to lead differently is because of the nature.

00:27:10:01 - 00:27:17:19
Kevin Eikenberry
The nature of choice is changing. Say a little bit more about that because I don't think that's something people have thought about in this way.

00:27:17:22 - 00:27:47:21
Stephen MR Covey
Yeah, well, if you think about it, with all of the advances in technology and everything else and the workplace changing, we've gone from what we might call multiple choice to infinite choice. There's just all kinds of options and possibilities, the advent of the gig economy and all these things where suddenly I can live here and work there. I have options and choices and I can do all these different things in a way I didn't have even a few years ago.

00:27:47:23 - 00:28:16:00
Stephen MR Covey
So before I might have had a number of choices. Now it's infinite for people, and so people get to choose where they want to be, who they want to work with and why, and they're going to choose to work with people where they feel trusted, where they feel inspired, and if they feel like they're just being commanded and controlled, they'll they'll go find a place where they feel trusted and where, you know, they because they have choices and options in a way they didn't have before.

00:28:16:02 - 00:28:36:02
Stephen MR Covey
I like to put it this way People don't want to be managed. People want to be led. They want to be trusted and inspired. And when they're just being managed and being commanded and controlled, they have too many choices and options today to stay there forever. That to say, you know what, I don't need this. I can go elsewhere and they will.

00:28:36:07 - 00:28:47:23
Stephen MR Covey
And we won't retain talent, especially the best talent, and we won't bring out the best in talent. We try to command and control our way. So it's got to be a new way to lead trust, inspire.

00:28:48:01 - 00:29:15:04
Kevin Eikenberry
I love that. So as we start to wrap up, I want to remind you all that you are listening to my conversation with Stephen McCubbin, the author of a number of books, including the newest Trust in Inspire, has been the focus of this conversation. If you missed it earlier, if before now, between now and the end of February 2024, you send me a LinkedIn note and say, I want a copy of the book, you'll be entered in a drawing to win a copy of this book.

00:29:15:04 - 00:29:34:21
Kevin Eikenberry
I hope you'll do that and connect with me on LinkedIn while you're there. Stephen A couple of things before we go. I'm going to shift the you and I know like we were chatting before we went live and I suddenly realized it was time to go live like I know you and I can have very long conversation. We you go a long way, but I want to get to a couple of things that maybe you don't always get asked before we finish.

00:29:34:21 - 00:29:44:15
Kevin Eikenberry
And one of those is other than maybe not at the airport, but maybe after you leave the airport. But like, what do you do for fun?

00:29:44:17 - 00:30:09:12
Stephen MR Covey
Well, I love to go to sporting events as well as cultural events. So I love it. I'm I have a son right now, Kevin, that plays in the NFL for the Philadelphia Eagles. So I go to a lot of pro football games, which is fun. I so I love sporting events, but I also love cultural events. I love to go to plays on Broadway in the West End in London.

00:30:09:14 - 00:30:32:12
Stephen MR Covey
And and then I love to go to concerts and so that's fun for me, kind of events, cultural events, sporting events and concerts, things like that. That's I find fun and I love to do it with my family and with my wife, with my children. I mean, I started with when I was this was clear back in 2007.

00:30:32:12 - 00:30:42:06
Stephen MR Covey
I took my young seven year old daughter to Taylor Swift in 2007. And I was I was a swifty before there were Swifties.

00:30:42:06 - 00:30:44:03
Kevin Eikenberry
Before the restrictive seven.

00:30:44:03 - 00:31:03:03
Stephen MR Covey
And so and I taking her to the three Taylor Swift concerts, you know, so now you're, you know, this huge thing going on today. And I feel like I was there before. This was so, so big and so things like that. I do I try to do it with my my children. You know, my kids are my hobbies in a sense.

00:31:03:05 - 00:31:08:20
Stephen MR Covey
And and I just love to spend time with my family. But doing activities, doing events are fun for me.

00:31:09:01 - 00:31:20:09
Kevin Eikenberry
I love that. One of the things I know we have in common is that we're both readers, and that's the only thing you knew I was going to ask you, but what are you reading, Steven, these days, or what's something you've read recently?

00:31:20:11 - 00:31:49:06
Stephen MR Covey
Yeah, well, you know, I really love some of the works of of Francis Frye and Ann Morris, and their earlier book Unleashed is terrific. They have a brand new book out called Move Fast and Fix Things. And and Francis invited me to endorse it, which I did. I really love the book. And the whole premise is bringing speed back into the equation.

00:31:49:07 - 00:32:11:01
Stephen MR Covey
It's and it's speed can get a bad name, you know, because you can move fast and break things in there. Their whole point is no novel is rethink speed, move fast and fix things. SAMILTON Eastley And that three, that resonates because my whole thing is on the speed and speed of trust. And so I really believe that that once you build this trust, you move fast.

00:32:11:03 - 00:32:18:06
Stephen MR Covey
And when you fix things as well, then you have a greater impact. So that's a great new book that's out there by and Morris and Francis Fry.

00:32:18:08 - 00:32:37:12
Kevin Eikenberry
We will have that in the show Notes has always and Daniel on LinkedIn says The Speed of Trust was workshop during his master's program at the University of Texas in Dallas. He loves the book he uses in his practice in Brazil, so that's probably a good place to take us now. Stephen, where do you want to point people?

00:32:37:17 - 00:32:46:03
Kevin Eikenberry
Where do you want to send people? How do you want to connect with people? What do you want them to know? Before we wrap up an hour for those who are watching, I'll hold the book up while you do that.

00:32:46:05 - 00:33:09:05
Stephen MR Covey
Well, thank you. I would say this that I got go to trust and inspire icon trust inspired icon, the name of the book. We have a website there with a variety of tools and things you can do and including how to connect with me via social media on an X on on Instagram and and LinkedIn and the like.

00:33:09:05 - 00:33:32:16
Stephen MR Covey
Facebook. So variety of ways you can connect that way and some different tools. And I think that again you know we hit today the fundamental beliefs, which I'm really glad that we did Kevin because it's easy to kind of skip the basic paradigm and kind of move right into the the stewardship ships and, and but those beliefs matter enormously.

00:33:32:18 - 00:34:05:22
Stephen MR Covey
And so I'll just give one little quick illustration if I could have a great example of trust in Inspire in Action of adopting beliefs like this and then doing this, the stewardship that followed that follow the stewardship of the model to trust and to inspire, which is all part of the trust inspire approach. But I think of what Satya Nadella has done at Microsoft, along with Kathleen Hogan, who is the the head of the Chief People officer, Chief human resource officer, a brilliant leader as well.

00:34:06:00 - 00:34:30:03
Stephen MR Covey
And how, you know, they came in and through a different approach of leadership and they started with a growth mindset for everyone. This idea there's greatness inside of people, growth mindset for everyone. And this idea of I've seen that and then trying to unleash it and and in their words, it was a model coach care approach, which is really modeling, trusting, inspiring.

00:34:30:05 - 00:34:58:14
Stephen MR Covey
And they and through this process, you know, at the time when Nadella came in, they the culture had become cutthroat, competitive internally. They were losing talent. They were not innovating anymore. They still were. Microsoft still big. But he came in and through his leadership style, his and and Kathleen's literally revitalized the culture. He modeled he trusted he inspired Kathleen model and inspired.

00:34:58:16 - 00:35:23:13
Stephen MR Covey
And they they began to win in the workplace, built a high trust culture that inspires. And they're throwing focus and thriving today. They began to win in the marketplace through collaboration, innovation, their cloud powerhouse completely reinvented themselves. And today they're one of only two companies in the world valued over at over $2 trillion. They've unleashed the greatness of the organization by first unleashing the greatness of their own people.

00:35:23:15 - 00:35:45:21
Stephen MR Covey
And that's the sequence matters the way that we sustain winning in the marketplace with customers and partners is because we first win in the workplace with our own people and track and inspire this kind of leadership. It starts with those beliefs. But then where you model, you trust and you inspire, that will be what unleashes the greatness. The talent is inside of people.

00:35:46:00 - 00:36:00:23
Stephen MR Covey
We need this in our world today. We need it in our not only in our organizations. We need it in our neighborhoods, in our communities, in our society at large. And we can become presence by our leaders to be a model for all the world.

00:36:01:01 - 00:36:20:14
Kevin Eikenberry
You came here to learn how to unleash greatness in others. And we've talked about beliefs, we've talked about approaches, we've talked about ideas. And now I leave all of you with a question. It's the question I ask you. Every single episode of question is, Now what? Okay, now what are you going to do with what you've just learned?

00:36:20:14 - 00:36:41:23
Kevin Eikenberry
There's plenty here to think about. There's plenty of here to consider. And obviously both of us would hope that you'd buy a copy of Trust and Inspire. But beyond that, what ideas did you take from this that you will act on? Having an idea? Being inspired is wonderful. Taking action on the inspiration is what will start to make a difference.

00:36:41:23 - 00:37:04:18
Kevin Eikenberry
I hope that you will think about that and use this as more than just a useful way to spend your time on the treadmill or your drive to work, but rather to think about how how can this conversation and the outcomes that you choose change your work, change your results, change your organization. Steven, thanks so much for being here.

00:37:04:19 - 00:37:10:07
Kevin Eikenberry
It's such a pleasure to be with you. I've been looking forward to this. We finally got the chance to do it. Thank you.

00:37:10:09 - 00:37:18:11
Stephen MR Covey
You are welcome. Kevin Thank you. Love being part of this remarkable leadership podcast. And my response to that go first segment is.

00:37:18:11 - 00:37:38:15
Kevin Eikenberry
That leader focused leaders go first. And so if this is not your first time listening, what how you can go first is you can go write a write up review of this podcast. You can invite someone else to join you in listening to the one we just listen to or listen with us next week for the next episode of the Remarkable Leadership Podcast.

00:37:38:16 - 00:37:39:06
Kevin Eikenberry
Thanks, everybody.

00:37:39:12 - 00:37:39:23
Stephen MR Covey
Thanks.