The Remarkable Leadership Podcast

00:00:08:15 - 00:00:38:10
Kevin Eikenberry
Honey bees. Perhaps you've never given them much thought, much less had a chance to closely observe them. And while we won't peer into a hive today, we will learn what honey bees can teach us about being more focused and productive in a distracted world. Those are lessons we all need. Whether we like honey or not. Welcome to another episode of the Remarkable Leadership Podcast, where we are helping leaders grow personally and professionally to lead more effectively and make a bigger difference for their teams, organizations and the world.

00:00:38:16 - 00:01:01:03
Kevin Eikenberry
If you are listening to this podcast, you could be live in the future. When we do this on your favorite social media channel, because they're live streamed first before they get on to the podcast. If you want to find out when those are happening so you can join us and get this information earlier. In the case of this episode, about two months earlier, you can join our Facebook or LinkedIn groups.

00:01:01:05 - 00:01:30:18
Kevin Eikenberry
Just go to remarkable podcast.com/facebook or remarkable podcast.com/linked in. Today's episode is brought to you by my latest book, Flexible Leadership. Navigate uncertainty and Lead with confidence. It's time to realize that styles can get in our way, and that following our strengths might not always be the best approach. In a world more complex and uncertain than ever. Leaders need a new perspective and a new set of tools to create great results for their organizations and team members.

00:01:30:19 - 00:01:52:23
Kevin Eikenberry
That's what flexible leadership provide you. You can learn more and order your copy now. Just go to wherever you buy your books or remarkable podcast.com/flexible will take you to a link to do exactly that. I hope you'll do that. Let me bring in my guest here he is. I don't know why the speaker wanted to talk to me.

00:01:53:11 - 00:02:15:15
Kevin Eikenberry
But let me bring up my guest. Let me read a little intro for you, and then we'll dive in. His name is Jones Laughlin. He's made it his life's work to deliver powerful ideas and practical solutions to help people make the best choices with their time. Jones's innovative solutions attract the attention of all types of organizations and client.

00:02:15:16 - 00:02:40:10
Kevin Eikenberry
His client list includes Federal Express, Tractor Supply, and Choice Hotels, as well as the U.S. military and a number of international companies. He's an accomplished author and coach. His books include Always Growing, Juggling Elephants, Getting the Blue Ribbon, and Getting to It. I can recommend all of them highly. He believes the key to success is being passionate about certain things in life, including family, spiritual beliefs, career and relationships.

00:02:40:11 - 00:03:05:02
Kevin Eikenberry
He lives that passion. You're about to find that out. He lives in North Carolina with his wife, Lisa. They have two perfect daughters and one really cool son in law. And who knows, maybe another son in law down the road. His new book, his latest book is written with Sydney, one of those perfect daughters. It's called focused as AB6 Buzzworthy Strategies to Thrive in a Distracting World.

00:03:05:05 - 00:03:11:15
Kevin Eikenberry
Jones. Welcome. Wow. You know, we've had the chance to work together, but not on the podcast.

00:03:11:20 - 00:03:28:06
Jones Loflin
I know this is so fascinating. And as I was listening, I thought, you know, I should have had my best suit on today because when you gave that opening, said, we're going to peer into a hive, today after all this. So cool. You know, I should have a suit on and say, yes, Kevin, we're going outside. Y'all come with me.

00:03:28:17 - 00:03:43:15
Jones Loflin
But it is it is a joy to be with you, Kevin. Love talking about leadership, love talking about ideas to help, leaders grow and thrive. And so just a joy to be with you today, to talk about this whole idea of focus.

00:03:43:17 - 00:04:00:07
Kevin Eikenberry
I love that. Well, so let's do that. So you've written a bunch of books. You've worked with, organizations around the world. And now you've written this new book. What's the what's the journey? Because there's a special story to this book. So what's the journey to this book? And now you're writing with your daughter. Why that? Let's tell us a little bit about all that.

00:04:00:12 - 00:04:21:07
Jones Loflin
Sure. Absolutely. And and, Kevin, I won't spoil it for those who are going to read the book. You know, there's a some things that I like people to capture in the story because it is a narrative. And so, yeah, about five years ago, Sydney and I, my daughter began talking about we'd maybe like to do a book together, and I'd kind of had a, desire to start writing another book.

00:04:21:08 - 00:04:25:01
Jones Loflin
I didn't really know what it would be about. And so it was long. By the time the.

00:04:25:01 - 00:04:30:02
Kevin Eikenberry
Important thing like, yeah, you gotta have a topic. That'd be a good thing to do.

00:04:30:04 - 00:04:50:02
Jones Loflin
Yeah. Spencer Johnson, who wrote who? Move my cheese. We'll talk about that, says don't write a book. You haven't lived. And and I thought it's so powerful. And so we kind of started just, you know, knocking around some ideas and, and then about that same time, we started working with honey bees. And so we kind of, you know, just talked but really didn't connect the book idea with it.

00:04:50:04 - 00:05:07:16
Jones Loflin
And then, a couple years later, we started, you know, talking about, you know, bees really have this incredible ability to focus what, you know, what would that look like and what are the principles we're we're noticing. And we started applying those. And from there it became, okay, well, I think there might be a book there, but but what's the story line?

00:05:07:16 - 00:05:38:22
Jones Loflin
I mean, you know, me, whether it's young elephants are always growing. I, I write in parable or metaphors. That's my strength, I think. And so I, I do that. And so what we found was this amazing opportunity, to tie in to, my daughter Sydney, her relationship with Alisha, someone who loved bees and to actually, talk about what their journey could have looked like in the context of here's this person who's really scattered and surviving, what could they learn from bees to thrive?

00:05:38:23 - 00:06:01:09
Jones Loflin
And so that's a little bit of the journey. And then, of course, as you know, in book writing becomes a process. It's a process. And you trust the process and you write and you rewrite and you get it out there and get feedback and it becomes better and better. And finally you say, yeah, yeah, if we, well, if we got the right people and you certainly do, and I do do in our networks, then we, we do the Seth Godin thing.

00:06:01:09 - 00:06:06:10
Jones Loflin
We say, time to ship. And so that's where we are.

00:06:06:17 - 00:06:23:09
Kevin Eikenberry
There is more to the back story with Sydney and Alicia. We will not share that because it sounds like you want to hold that back, which is fantastic. I'm glad for that. And so what was the process like writing it with Sydney, and how would that answer be different if I asked her, rather than you?

00:06:23:11 - 00:06:53:02
Jones Loflin
Time we actually creative behind the scenes video that asks that very question. And so here you've got this 58. Yes. Even though I look much younger, this 58 year old guy writing a book with his 21 year old daughter, you're talking about differences in reading styles. Sydney would prefer to to watch a YouTube video or to see a TikTok and learn something, whereas I'm the old guy, you know, I, I like to have my coffee cup and let's read, you know, some pages in a physical book.

00:06:53:02 - 00:06:54:06
Jones Loflin
Those like you boy and.

00:06:54:09 - 00:06:58:10
Kevin Eikenberry
Let's name two authors of actual books since we started this.

00:06:58:12 - 00:07:24:09
Jones Loflin
I know, I know, and so what what I found, what we found interesting, was that I would want to put a whole lot of, of content as far as training, as far as ideas about focus. And Sydney would remind me, this is a story, dad. You got to keep it light. We want to make sure that the twentysomethings, the early careers, as my friend David Schmidt calls him, will connect with the message.

00:07:24:11 - 00:07:48:12
Jones Loflin
And it still have, valuable information for the the CEOs, the mid-level managers who are in their 40s, in their 50s. And so what was it like? It was a challenge. And that's why it was so important for us to, at every step in the process, get feedback, from other people of all ages and backgrounds, to make sure we were staying on target.

00:07:48:13 - 00:08:05:08
Kevin Eikenberry
So there's two things there. One, as you wrote with your daughter, which I haven't done, but you wrote for the first time with someone else, I think, if I remember right. And, and I've done that multiple times. And so I think there's a lot of commonality about writing with someone else, challenges, but great opportunities in doing that.

00:08:05:08 - 00:08:24:20
Kevin Eikenberry
So, the book title is focused as a B, and yet you can see if you're watching, you can see that the word busy is crossed out. Like if we think about if it's whether you know anything about BS or not, most people say, well, I'm busy as a B, so why is the word busy crossed out? Why is it focused instead?

00:08:24:20 - 00:08:32:14
Kevin Eikenberry
Like what's the what's the story there? Like, why isn't this about busy.

00:08:32:16 - 00:08:55:20
Jones Loflin
Yeah absolutely. Well enter Kevin I Canberra who who gave me a thought as you do many people. You and I were having a conversation a few years ago. I think it was during Covid actually. We you were so kind. Just kind of checking in on other speakers and trainers and and, we were talking and I said the word busy, and you just immediately and, I like that word.

00:08:55:22 - 00:09:15:17
Jones Loflin
And I never really ask you about it in the mall because I think it was near the end of our conversation. But that just always kind of stuck with me. And I'm like, Brian, what's wrong with busy? What's wrong with busy? What's wrong with busy? And so then as we got into writing the book, then we, you know, we got to see we know these people use busy and a very, vague term.

00:09:15:19 - 00:09:34:08
Jones Loflin
How was your week? Busy. What does that mean? What are you accomplishing? What are you getting done? And so we started realizing that that's not a positive word because it normally implies a lot of activity without a lot of intention. And so that or conversation.

00:09:34:09 - 00:09:35:21
Kevin Eikenberry
We just did we were busy.

00:09:35:23 - 00:09:37:07
Jones Loflin
Right? I don't I.

00:09:37:11 - 00:09:45:17
Kevin Eikenberry
I often say it's the it's the most dangerous four letter word in English language. My grandmother would not have agreed. But I think you're a sports.

00:09:45:21 - 00:10:05:02
Jones Loflin
Would I should have I should have asked you for that. We could have put that on the back cover. The most dangerous four letter word in the English vocabulary. Darn, Kevin. And the second printing. We'll do that. So. But yeah, it is this idea that it's just a default for us, that we are quite busy with accomplishment, as you said.

00:10:05:02 - 00:10:31:00
Jones Loflin
And and focus. And in fact, one of the things that I've had to really narrow my focus about what is focus, well, you know, it's the intentional direction of your intention and energy to what is most important, you know, is and there's two pieces there, attention and energy. And and so that's why we marked out the word busy but focused just as kind of, something for readers to go.

00:10:32:03 - 00:10:35:20
Jones Loflin
Does that mean? And then the book, of course, explains it.

00:10:35:22 - 00:11:03:20
Kevin Eikenberry
And the book does a great job of that. The book is a narrative, a parable, if you will, a story. And so I know that. I know that that's how you write. And I know lots of people that write that way. And it's a powerful way for us to, to write and to read and, and yet, the best parables end up with some very clear points for us, especially if it's being written for the purposes that you've just you built.

00:11:03:20 - 00:11:13:16
Kevin Eikenberry
And so you, you build this around what you call six permissions. And we're going to get to what the permissions are in a second. And that's what we sort of frame our conversation.

00:11:13:18 - 00:11:14:11
Jones Loflin


00:11:14:13 - 00:11:30:17
Kevin Eikenberry
But I'm curious why you used the word permission rather than tip or strategy or whatever. What. Because I think the word permission in this context is really important. So why permission?

00:11:30:19 - 00:11:52:17
Jones Loflin
Yeah. Yeah. Full transparency. I think it was probably three years ago. I, I do a weekly video, the Jones on tips on having a better week, and I put something out there about what do you need to give yourself permission to do to. I think it was to manage your work life overload or something like that.

00:11:52:19 - 00:12:14:04
Jones Loflin
And it was amazing. I got response from several people who said, I've never thought about it that way. About that, I need to give myself permission. Because we wait on others to, give us permission. We wait on the circumstances to be a certain way to give us permission. But we have to be the ones to give ourselves permission.

00:12:14:08 - 00:12:31:17
Jones Loflin
Because only we know what what our values are, our priorities are, our goals are. And so in that context, permission becomes really important. And whether we recognize it or not, and we talk about this in the book, we give ourselves unconscious permission to be distracted.

00:12:31:19 - 00:13:01:07
Kevin Eikenberry
100%. That's, that's that's where busy lives, right? Yes, yes, yes. So you're talking about you're talking about focus being an intentional direction of our attention and energy. And and busy comes automatically. And it's worn in some cases like a badge of honor. Yeah. And and so, if we aren't intense, if what I found as I thought about these permissions is that all of them.

00:13:01:09 - 00:13:29:13
Kevin Eikenberry
Require intentionality. Right. And and even the idea of giving myself permission says my default probably isn't this. Yes. And within the six, there are a couple that some of you might say, well, that is in my default. That is my natural tendency. But I'm confident that no one has all six of them as a natural tendency. And that's why I think this is so great.

00:13:29:13 - 00:13:51:13
Kevin Eikenberry
You may read this, folks, and find someone, and you're going to want to read this book focused as a bee by Jones and Sidney Laughlin. But, I think that as we walk through these six permissions, there'll be at least 1 or 2 that will hit you like, like the broadside. You know, it hits you across the shot, the head and say, that's what I needed to hear today.

00:13:51:16 - 00:14:12:03
Kevin Eikenberry
And that's my hope as we're having this conversation at the start of the new year. And. But whenever you're having the chance to hear us, I think that as you listen to these six things, one of them is going to speak to you. And I hope that you take action when when you hear it. So the first one is the permission to prioritize.

00:14:12:03 - 00:14:32:17
Kevin Eikenberry
And I guess any book that's going to talk about folk is going to talk about time and talk about distractions is going to talk about prioritize. What specifically do you well, let's do it this way. Tell us a little bit about the connection to bees and prioritization. And then give us a tip about prioritization that maybe we haven't thought about.

00:14:32:19 - 00:14:46:05
Jones Loflin
Okay. As it relates to honeybees, you know, we think about what is the goal of, of honeybees, what what are honeybees trying to do? And the most are okay. Go ahead. Kevin, what's the answer?

00:14:46:07 - 00:14:48:11
Kevin Eikenberry
They're trying to maintain the hive.

00:14:48:13 - 00:14:52:10
Jones Loflin
That's it. But the average person would say.

00:14:52:12 - 00:14:55:00
Kevin Eikenberry
They're trying to make honey. They're trying to make honey.

00:14:55:02 - 00:15:25:08
Jones Loflin
And and that distinction alone is huge. Is, as you know, it's all about the thriving of the colony for another season. So everything is aligned toward that outcome. There's great clarity around that. They don't engage in any activities that aren't aligned with that outcome. Now, if you took the average human being off the street, maybe even on some days, I don't have all this stuff figured out and you ask, what, what is the outcome you are looking for from today?

00:15:25:14 - 00:15:53:04
Jones Loflin
They'd go. Get to the next block to, you know, to get through my email to, you know, we just don't think in those bigger terms and and and so prioritize housing is all about thinking about what are those outcomes. I want to align all my attention and energy toward to accomplish. And so you ask about a tip. I think just stopping and asking yourself that question some time is really important.

00:15:53:04 - 00:16:14:06
Jones Loflin
You know, what are the desired outcomes I have from today, whether it's work or personal, relational and stopping is okay. How can I align my activities like a bee? How can I align my activities today to be in alignment with that outcome? And and hey Kevin, this is no different than Covey. Begin with the end in mind.

00:16:15:00 - 00:16:25:10
Jones Loflin
Type of but it's just in the context of bees is that bees are very clear about this is what we're after. So everything needs to be aligned towards that outcome.

00:16:25:12 - 00:16:34:05
Kevin Eikenberry
So I don't know if you know this, but, did you know that the word, the root word in the word priority does not have a plural?

00:16:34:07 - 00:16:39:01
Jones Loflin
Wait, wait, wait, I got a I haven't had my third cup of coffee. Say that again.

00:16:39:04 - 00:17:02:13
Kevin Eikenberry
The root word of the word priority, I can't remember, is Latin or Greek. Someone will okay with watching the dog. There was not a there was not a plural. In fact, when you're not going to find, you're not going to find any usage of a plural of the word priority priorities until about 100 years ago and the usage of it has continued to go up, which is completely connected to the fact.

00:17:02:14 - 00:17:19:01
Kevin Eikenberry
Why we need to hear this. And so let's go back to the bees. Yeah. This was what I thought of as you were saying. It. The first goal and seeds proves that I read the book. Right. Yeah. That's, the first goal is to maintain the hive.

00:17:19:02 - 00:17:20:00
Jones Loflin
High the colony.

00:17:20:01 - 00:17:21:10
Kevin Eikenberry
The hive to thrive, or whatever.

00:17:21:10 - 00:17:23:14
Jones Loflin
The hive to thrive. That's what we say. Yeah.

00:17:23:16 - 00:17:43:16
Kevin Eikenberry
And then to make honey. So, like, honey is a part of that, but it's the next one. So once we got one done, then we can work on the next priority. But we don't have to at once, you know, have some bees doing one, some bees doing the other, at least not in that we got everything's got to be right around that idea of the hive thriving.

00:17:43:16 - 00:18:06:02
Kevin Eikenberry
And by the way, for those of you listening as leaders thinking about that in terms of our hive being our team, our high being, our culture, there's a there's another lesson there that goes beyond, oh yeah, sanctioned today. The second of the permissions. Is the permission to plan. How do bees, honey bees plan.

00:18:06:15 - 00:18:35:00
Jones Loflin
For example, we share in the book and and your readers are that your listeners will appreciate it is this whole idea of when, when, he thinks about swarming and we could. Swarming is all about starting a new colony somewhere else. It's fascinating that a few days prior to them actually swarming the bee, the bees who were going to be leaving, which are of a certain age, they will start gorging themselves on honey, because when they swarm, they have no honey sauce.

00:18:35:02 - 00:18:54:05
Jones Loflin
And if they didn't, didn't. And if they didn't eat, you know, gorge on food before they left, they'd starve to death. And that this swarm that's heading out to start a new colony would never survive. I mean, they plan another thing about bees. If bees, sense that tomorrow is not going to be a day for foraging. Okay.

00:18:54:13 - 00:19:12:22
Jones Loflin
The weather is going to be too cold or too, too wet or too something. Then they will actually work more on the day prior so that they don't lose ground the day they can't go out and forage. I mean, they're just in its infancy, instinctive care. And we got to stop here and go. Bees do it instinctively.

00:19:13:01 - 00:19:18:02
Jones Loflin
We have to do it intentionally. Yes, yes, yes. So so.

00:19:18:02 - 00:19:38:23
Kevin Eikenberry
What's one thing again? And this is the one when I said earlier that some people may almost instinctually or naturally do one of these things, this is the one that I was thinking that there are some people that, that for, for them stopping, stepping back and planning is almost instinctual for them or, or a natural response for them.

00:19:39:11 - 00:19:48:04
Kevin Eikenberry
What's one thing that you could tell us about planning that maybe we haven't heard, or that we haven't thought about in that way?

00:19:48:06 - 00:20:12:02
Jones Loflin
Sure. We're going to mix metaphors for a moment. My book, Juggling Elephants. When we talk about planning, I talk about in juggling, if that's how your life's like a three ring circus and you've got three rings. Got work yourself in a relationship ring. When it comes to planning, one of the things I think people don't do a good job of is planning as well for their self and relationship areas of their life as they do for work.

00:20:12:04 - 00:20:38:13
Jones Loflin
They spend an enormous amount of time thinking, how can I be successful at work? How can I accomplish my priority, not ease? At work we don't think about that in terms of our self, our personal wellness, or in terms of of growing and improving our relationship. So my tip I'll borrow from juggling elephants for that one is that we need to be intentional about planning for more than just work.

00:20:40:01 - 00:20:57:01
Kevin Eikenberry
Perfect. I my finger click to the next one. So if you're watching, you know what the next one is. And this is one of my favorites. And, and that is to plan and give yourself permission. Excuse me. To be unavailable. What do you mean? Here?

00:20:57:03 - 00:21:17:03
Jones Loflin
Oh, we're so available to everything around us, in any moment. I mean, let's start with the obvious, Kevin. You know, we we we attempt to do work in a workspace, but yet we've got our device close by, and even if it's on silent, it still makes a noise. We still see it. We still think about it.

00:21:17:15 - 00:21:44:10
Jones Loflin
And so permission to be unavailable is about how do you reduce the, the the stress, that is coming from your thoughts. How do you behave unavailable to the environment that could distract you and how do you be unavailable to others? And we chose the the word unavailable because it is kind of a word that it packs a punch, you know, because especially if you're a leader, be unavailable.

00:21:44:10 - 00:22:03:08
Jones Loflin
Wait, wait. My team needs me. Yes, your team needs you to be fully present with them because you were unavailable to them the first hour of the morning to plan the things that need to happen and how you're going to best work with them. So that's the idea behind unavailable. Oh, that's right. You need a tip, don't you know?

00:22:03:09 - 00:22:11:10
Kevin Eikenberry
Go ahead. Well it's huge. So let's first of all, what, what do we learn from bees about honeybees? About being unavailable?

00:22:11:12 - 00:22:31:11
Jones Loflin
Sure. If you are working with a beehive and you open it up. I don't mean if you jar the box, but if you just genuinely, you know, generally open it up and look down. Those bees aren't paying attention to you. Now, there's a few soldier bees. They're going to come out and check on you and make sure you're not going to, you know, destroy the colony.

00:22:31:14 - 00:22:52:23
Jones Loflin
But they're like, we got more important things to do. Then notice these two giants that are ripping off the top of our house. We've got to make sure the colony is thriving so they don't let themselves be distracted by everything that's happening around them. They stay on task. So that's that's example of bees being, you know, unavailable. And the moment.

00:22:53:01 - 00:23:10:18
Kevin Eikenberry
This unavailable thing I think is so huge. You know, I wrote a number of years ago, I wrote a blog post. It for a long time was my most read blog post, and it was about why leaders should have a closed door policy because the whole thing is always available. If I'm always available, I never have time to think.

00:23:10:22 - 00:23:33:03
Kevin Eikenberry
I never have time to plan. I never have time to do the other stuff that sets me apart or helps me and help my team. So we have to find ways to create this time. And and I think maybe this is if you're as a listener, maybe this is the one that really hits for you and you would say, well, I can't do that, Kevin, because, you know, I've got all these things and I get all these emails and stuff, and I say, you got to figure this one out.

00:23:33:12 - 00:23:44:14
Kevin Eikenberry
Because if you don't figure this one out, you can never get to the level of, success and impact that you really want to have. This is a business critical. That's true. So whether it's in the.

00:23:44:18 - 00:23:49:10
Jones Loflin
On the list and it's in fact, it's one of my two favorite ones, I'll tell you the other one later.

00:23:49:12 - 00:24:17:15
Kevin Eikenberry
Okay. Well, the fourth one, is the giving ourselves permission to recharge. Yeah. And the other words, if we're always busy, we never have any downtime. And in a world that's talking more and more about and people are more open about, burnout and these sorts of things, I think this is a really important message. Why do we need to give ourselves permission to recharge?

00:24:17:17 - 00:24:48:04
Jones Loflin
Yeah, well, it goes back to the distracting thing a moment ago where we're always encouraged to be engaged in activity, to be doing some, thing and, and focus, as we talk about in the book, focus drains our energy. Oh, it's exciting to work on that new project or collaborate with the team. It's also draining. And if we're not careful, then we drain so much of our mental energy that we're not ready for that next task or that next team member who really needs our full attention.

00:24:48:06 - 00:25:15:03
Jones Loflin
And so that's why it's important to stop and recharge. Fun fact in a healthy hive, bees rest more than they work. They actually are are changing out. You know, as a whether it's like this time of year where it's cold, they're, you know, they're buzzing around. They're they're flapping their wings to keep things warm, but then they'll rotate out so that others, other bees will come in and be able to, you know, maintain the heat of the hive or something.

00:25:15:03 - 00:25:24:07
Jones Loflin
But they actually rest more because they want to be fully available for the work that's required of them. When it's time to work again.

00:25:24:09 - 00:25:39:14
Kevin Eikenberry
I think this one for leaders is so important as well, because all during Covid, one of the things that we said all the time was that you can't be at your, you can't be give your best to your team if you're not at your best. Like, you just can't. So possible. So we have to make that take that time.

00:25:39:14 - 00:25:58:19
Kevin Eikenberry
The last two of the permissions are. Paradoxical in my opinion. And so let's start with number five, which is the permission to change. What do you mean by being having the permission to change?

00:25:58:21 - 00:26:20:20
Jones Loflin
I when I'm coaching, people. Kevin, one of the things I have found is that, people continue to do things that aren't working, and, and one of the, the most powerful things I can do, I think, for a coaching client is I sometimes in the one to give them permission to change you know, what would what would be possible if you looked at this differently?

00:26:20:22 - 00:26:45:09
Jones Loflin
What would be possible if you took this action, I wonder? I'm curious. And it's amazing how there's there's this dead silence, especially, you know, if it's on a phone call where they're going. Wait a minute. I can think about this differently. I didn't think I could. So, you know, we just get so ingrained into to routines and habits that aren't serving us.

00:26:45:11 - 00:27:07:21
Jones Loflin
And we won't give ourselves permission to change, because number one, we're afraid of of of what the repercussions may be. We're afraid we're going to be bad at it, you know, and we're not going to be immediately successful at this other thing. And then the other thing is, we're not patient with ourselves. You know, when it comes to change, we think we immediately have to be good at this next skill or habit or whatever is will develop.

00:27:08:00 - 00:27:12:13
Jones Loflin
And that's just not the case. It takes time for that to happen.

00:27:12:15 - 00:27:36:02
Kevin Eikenberry
You know, I love that. I do love that. And so we need to be able to change, to adapt, to flex. Since I have a book called flex. Yes, yes. So here's the thing. The last one is giving hours. So you're saying, okay, we got to be willing to change. But then the last thing that you in Sydney teach us is that we need to give ourselves permission to be consistent.

00:27:36:05 - 00:27:44:02
Kevin Eikenberry
Like, isn't that the opposite of being willing to change? Really?

00:27:44:04 - 00:28:04:16
Jones Loflin
That here's my here's my to say, here's the cool part, Kevin, because this is a metaphor, a parable. You take what's the value to you? You are the first person to offer me that. Yeah. These are kind of a paradox. The reality is, is that that any of these permissions could potentially, you know, rub up against each other.

00:28:05:04 - 00:28:16:11
Jones Loflin
You got to pick the one that's most valuable to me. You got to change. You got to give yourself permission to change what's not working and be consistent with what is working.

00:28:16:13 - 00:28:26:20
Kevin Eikenberry
Yeah, but if you keep. Yeah, exactly. And I figure that's where we end up. But now, what is it about honeybees that we can learn about consistency?

00:28:26:22 - 00:28:51:23
Jones Loflin
Sure. Absolutely. I mean, I don't think there's any. Well, I think the most beautiful things about our journey with honeybees is just the consistency with which they work. If the temperature hits about 55 to 60 degrees, those bees are out foraging. They're looking, inside the hive. They're keeping that temperature, you know, the hive consistent so that the brood lives the the honey is drying out a certain.

00:28:51:23 - 00:29:12:22
Jones Loflin
Right? I mean, there's so many things. They're just so darn consistent about the the growth, as the beach. A as the bees age, like when a bee is first born, its first job is to clean out its own sail, its own hexagon, where it was born. The next thing it does that feeds other bees. I mean, there's a consistency in process that's just incredible with bees.

00:29:13:02 - 00:29:19:03
Jones Loflin
And that's why they can accomplish so much is because they are consistent in what they do.

00:29:19:05 - 00:29:41:13
Kevin Eikenberry
I love that. So we've been talking about this all along where we've been, both of us have been making connections to your six permissions, to us as leaders. Are there any other leadership lessons from the book or from our conversation that you would want to draw out or underline for our listeners?

00:29:41:15 - 00:30:04:12
Jones Loflin
To me, Kevin, one of the biggest ones for leaders is when you are in a leadership position, you may be the one who needs to help that team member. With that permission that, you know, we may certainly by reading this book, we hope that people, you know, find their own permissions they need to, you know, follow and practice.

00:30:04:14 - 00:30:27:04
Jones Loflin
I think as leaders, it's critical that you're sometimes asking yourself, what is that person not giving themselves permission to do? Permission to fail, permission to ask for help? I mean, you know what I'm talking about. That, to me, is one of the strongest parts for leaders is that you get to be the person often who helps provide that permission by the way you lead, manage them.

00:30:27:06 - 00:30:48:17
Kevin Eikenberry
And if you're reading this book because or you're thinking about this book with me and I want my team to be more focused, like you got to start with you and, and, and and if you want to help, others see these, give themselves these permissions, you have to be skilled at giving them to yourself well and share your, your, own challenges with doing that.

00:30:48:17 - 00:30:57:13
Kevin Eikenberry
And you do that, you'll be much more successful. Is there anything that Jones that I didn't ask that you wish I would have?

00:30:57:15 - 00:31:19:15
Jones Loflin
Jim, anything that you ask you didn't know? Kevin. I mean, you really have asked some great questions today. You gave a really good topline of the book. I think the only thing I would add is that while there's six permissions in the book, it's not about necessarily just those six. It's about what is the permission I need to give myself right now.

00:31:19:15 - 00:31:38:13
Jones Loflin
For example, the other day, Sidney was doing some, working on application guide for, for the book, and she said, I just need to give my self permission to be done, to be in, you know, because she just wants to keep making it perfect, you know? So I think that would be the piece. Yep.

00:31:38:15 - 00:31:57:04
Kevin Eikenberry
I love that. So, you do have honeybees, and so I'm pretty confident that you do that. I know why that began. And I'm assuming that that's at least somewhat fun for you. What else do you do, Jones? For fun?

00:31:57:22 - 00:32:19:11
Jones Loflin
Gardening, growing, anything? I used to grow kids, but now they're grown, so that. That part's out of the way that I do. I love to see things grow. It just the sense of joy about that. Another thing I enjoy is just good conversation, Kevin. I mean, things like today, I love the way you opened, up this this whole podcast about.

00:32:19:15 - 00:32:25:15
Jones Loflin
Imagine we were sitting around a table and I'd be drinking, you know, tea. And of course, I'd be drink decaf coffee. But.

00:32:25:17 - 00:32:26:11
Kevin Eikenberry
Just good.

00:32:26:11 - 00:32:47:12
Jones Loflin
Conversation about possibilities, about ideas and about life. That just really gets me, excited because we don't do that anymore. We're so transactional. Conversation instead of being relational. So that's something the other thing I enjoy doing is travel. I mean, obviously, there's just so much in this world to see, whether it's across town or across the world.

00:32:47:22 - 00:32:50:04
Jones Loflin
So I just love going to places, seeing new things.

00:32:51:19 - 00:32:56:07
Kevin Eikenberry
I love that. So what are you reading these days? Oh.

00:32:56:08 - 00:32:57:17
Jones Loflin
Glad you ask.

00:32:57:17 - 00:33:02:01
Kevin Eikenberry
I am reading you are going to ask me so.

00:33:02:03 - 00:33:26:14
Jones Loflin
You were supposed to tell him that, I am reading likable badass. It is wonderful. It is how to be a likable badass. You say it's a book for women. Okay. It's a dad of two daughters. In fact, I gave both my daughters a copy, to start the new year. I said, I'm going to read this, and I want you two to read this, because you're going to enjoy it.

00:33:27:03 - 00:33:47:19
Jones Loflin
It's fantastic because it really addresses the challenge for women. And how did they gain status in the workplace so that they will be respect rooted for their value and what they bring. And and so it's loving the book. I'm about three chapters in. It's called likable, badass.

00:33:47:21 - 00:34:03:05
Kevin Eikenberry
We will have that along with, other books that have been mentioned during this episode in the show notes, as always, as well as, of course, information about Jones and Sydney Loughlin's new book. So, Jones, where do you want to point people? Where can they learn more about you and the book? Where do you want to?

00:34:03:07 - 00:34:26:13
Jones Loflin
I absolutely, first of all, for me it's Jones laughlin.com, very simply for the book, just like the book title focused as a b.com, you can go there and learn more about the book, see some of the videos that Sydney and I created. You can order the book from the website. We always like that because we get to add a personal touch when that order comes directly to our website versus, Amazon or some other opportunity.

00:34:27:05 - 00:34:36:05
Jones Loflin
And so we'd love for you to come do that so that we can, provide you some things, like we even sneak in a jar of honey every now and then to some of the people who buy the book. So,

00:34:36:07 - 00:34:56:22
Kevin Eikenberry
All right, everybody, that's all you need to know, about that. And by the way, that is the first time that has ever happened, on the show is that someone said if you order a book, you might get some honey. Now, there. How could it be any sweeter than that? So, listen, Jones, I've been looking forward to this conversation for a while.

00:34:56:22 - 00:35:20:09
Kevin Eikenberry
And as I said before, we've had the chance to do some things together before you helped me, helped us celebrate our anniversary a couple years ago with a video. And, you've been with us on virtual con before, and so I'm pleased that we've had the chance to do this. But before we say our goodbyes, I've got the question for all of you watching and listening that I always ask being consistent for you all.

00:35:20:14 - 00:35:47:13
Kevin Eikenberry
And it is the simple yet important question of now what? What action will you take as a result of this? It is my hope that there are plenty of things that you made note of. Hopefully with a pen or pencil, but if not with your brain about what you're going to do with what you learned. Because having and and giving yourself permissions, whether it's the six we talked about or any others, requires intention, which means that learning it isn't enough.

00:35:47:13 - 00:36:08:18
Kevin Eikenberry
We must take action. And so it is my hope, and I'm sure Jones's as well, that you will take action on what you learn today, not just ordering a book, although I certainly hope you do that beyond that, that you will take action what you learned turning your learning into a new habit. And if you do that, you will get far more from this than you would have otherwise.

00:36:08:18 - 00:36:23:05
Kevin Eikenberry
And by the way, will have made, a difference for yourself and those around you. That's what leaders do. So, Jones, thank you so much for being here. It's a pleasure to have you, again, happy New Year, and thanks for being here.

00:36:23:07 - 00:36:31:13
Jones Loflin
Yeah, always a pleasure, Kevin. Appreciate the work that that you're doing. And, look forward to your new book. I'm excited about reading it. I've already ordered it, so we're good.

00:36:31:15 - 00:36:49:05
Kevin Eikenberry
All right, everybody. So that's this episode, which means, by the way, those of you who are listening to this when it first comes out on the podcast, two more weeks before that book comes out for those of you, and listen, for all of you, I hope you enjoyed this. If you did, please make sure you're subscribed. Make sure you like you know what to do with whatever it is that you watch this podcast.

00:36:49:05 - 00:36:54:13
Kevin Eikenberry
Just make sure you come back again next week for another episode of the Remarkable Leadership Podcast. Thanks everybody.