The Remarkable Leadership Podcast

00:00:08:05 - 00:00:32:08
Kevin Eikenberry
Imagine walking into your home at the end of a tough day. You're greeted by a loved one who asks about your day. And as you discuss the travails of the day, you are likely outlining the disruptions things that took your day off course. Our guest today believes that there is an upside to disruptions, not just the small ones like in our short story, but the big ones that leaders who are self-aware of at all are facing.

00:00:32:13 - 00:00:51:21
Kevin Eikenberry
That's our focus today. The upside of disruption. Welcome to another episode of the Remarkable Leadership Podcast, where we are helping leaders grow personally and professionally to lead more effectively and make a bigger, positive difference in the world for their teams, the organizations and the world. If you are listening to this podcast, you could be live with us in the future.

00:00:51:21 - 00:01:16:23
Kevin Eikenberry
For episodes on your favorite social media channel as we multicast them. You can find out when they're happening, who were interviewing, and how you can be a part of them live and therefore get this information sooner, and even perhaps interact with the guests by joining our Facebook or LinkedIn groups. Just go to remarkable podcast.com/facebook or remarkable podcast.com/linkedin to do that.

00:01:17:01 - 00:01:40:16
Kevin Eikenberry
Today's episode is brought to you by the second edition of The Long Distance Leader Revised Rules for Remarkable Remote and Hybrid Leadership. If you lead a team that is distributed in any way, this book will give you new skills, insights, and the confidence to lead more effectively in the new world of work. Learn more and order your copy at Remarkable podcast.com/l d l.

00:01:40:20 - 00:02:05:14
Kevin Eikenberry
And with that, all of that stuff out of the way, we'll bring in our guest. His name is Terence Maori. He is a world leading expert on the future of leadership, AI and disruption as a founder of the future trends think tank, Tech Future Lab, and a highly acclaimed author. He is the mind behind the movement for leaders to find the upside of distraction.

00:02:05:14 - 00:02:31:17
Kevin Eikenberry
Excuse me upside of disruption and rethink leadership for a post AI world. These ideas are encapsulated in his latest book, The Upside of Disruption The Path to Leading and Thriving in the unknown. His actionable insights and myth busting thinking have been featured in The Economist, Forbes Inc, the BBC, Reuters, Business Insider and The Drucker Forum, and Terence is my guest today.

00:02:31:18 - 00:02:35:16
Kevin Eikenberry
I'm so glad that you're here. Thanks for joining me, sir.

00:02:35:18 - 00:02:40:14
Terence Mauri
Kevin. Great to be on the show. Thank you for the warm introduction.

00:02:40:16 - 00:02:59:05
Kevin Eikenberry
It is my distinct pleasure. So let's just start here. You didn't, wake up when you were eight and said, I'm going to write about the future of leadership. Somehow you got to this point, obviously, we've said a little. I've introduced you a little bit. But tell us a little bit about your journey as it relates to this book.

00:02:59:05 - 00:03:07:16
Kevin Eikenberry
Well, where I was going to talk more about the book in a second. But like what leads you to this piece of work and therefore us being in this conversation?

00:03:07:18 - 00:03:32:06
Terence Mauri
It's such a great framing. And it reminds me of the philosopher, Kirk and God who said that life can only be lived forwards but is best understood backwards. And I had my whole life mapped out in a very linear way. You know, by the time we reach 18 or 21, I leave college or university. Most of that curiosity and courage and boldness has been squeezed out of us like a lemon.

00:03:32:08 - 00:03:55:20
Terence Mauri
And I spent my first career working in management consultancy, and it was a great career to be in, but I suffered a major life disruption. One day I walked into a store and a car driver lost control, mounted the curb and drove into the store. It was a terrible accident. Thankfully, nobody lost their lives that day, but I woke up under the car in a store with a whale burning on my leg.

00:03:55:22 - 00:04:17:02
Terence Mauri
I spent over a month in hospital recovering and you know what's really strange, Kevin? When you have a lot of time to think, even overthink, you really reconnect with who you are, who you want to be. You reconnect with the values and you ask yourself the question, am I putting those values into practice? And I realized when I did that I was no longer living the values that were important to me.

00:04:17:04 - 00:04:42:22
Terence Mauri
So that became a major life pivot for me. This is going back about 18 years, and I moved into academia. I moved into keynote speaking. I moved into executive coaching. So a real plethora of different areas, but they converged together to lead me to where I am today. And so it's been an interesting journey, a journey, a zigzag journey of surprises, of new learnings, new opportunities.

00:04:43:00 - 00:05:00:13
Terence Mauri
But I think the number one takeaway for me, number one reflection, is that we always overestimate the risk of doing something new, a new way of thinking, a new way of working. And we always underestimate the risk of standing still. And that's why I've written this third book, The Upside of Disruption.

00:05:00:15 - 00:05:14:18
Kevin Eikenberry
I want you I've read that in the book, and I read that in the prep notes. But I want you to say that again, because I think I know we tend to overestimate the risks of taking action. And yes.

00:05:14:20 - 00:05:43:13
Terence Mauri
There is this like paradox of risk. So by not taking risks, when volatility and uncertainty is high, when the ratio of assumptions to knowledge is high, actually not taking experimental risks with your work, with doing things faster or better or cheaper or more sustainably, actually, it can compound risks. So the idea here is we always overestimate the risk of doing something new and underestimate the risk of standing still.

00:05:43:16 - 00:06:05:07
Terence Mauri
Think about this for a few moments, even for everything to stay the same. Everything must change. If you look at the laws of physics, the laws of biology, we have atrophy or inertia. Stagnation. So the upside of disruption is not just a book for business leaders, but it's a book for human maximization as well. It's a book that answers big catalytic questions.

00:06:05:09 - 00:06:32:06
Terence Mauri
How do we sustain long term vitality despite AI and automation and algorithm? How do we turn these sort of geopolitical risks super cycles into concrete tailwinds? For more laser focus like, hot knife through warm butter to be able to really focus on focus. So these are the sorts of questions that kept me awake at night when I was writing The Upside of Disruption.

00:06:32:08 - 00:06:59:03
Kevin Eikenberry
So you just hinted at a little bit. You said AI, automation and algorithms. But like what beyond that. Because I know that that's part of it. What are the disruptions? I mean, obviously we can talk about this sort of generically, but as you are seeing the world today and as you talk about in the book, what are the what are the disruptions that you specifically are saying, we need to look for the upsides of.

00:06:59:05 - 00:07:22:13
Terence Mauri
It's a great point. You know, we have big bang disruptions, for example. The pandemic would be an example of that or a major, major fiscal crisis. We can have career disruption, technology disruption, industry disruption. But I think there's some interesting disruptors that are here are now secular and structural. So for example, AI is a cross sector disruptor.

00:07:22:15 - 00:07:50:06
Terence Mauri
And what I mean by that is does it pass the disruption test. Number one steep declines in cost. The cost of running AI models is declining by about full. Sorry, a half every four months. That's six x faster than the semiconductor chip. So we're seeing a collapse in the costs of running AI models. We're also seeing that AI is a horizontal technology that cuts across every single sector and every single industry.

00:07:50:12 - 00:08:24:16
Terence Mauri
And my final test for disruption is that it's a platform. AI can be a platform for disrupting other industries and other horizontals and verticals. For example, blockchain, energy storage, automation, robotics, DNA sequencing. So AI is is a particular disruptor. Another example would be blurring of industry lines. You know who are your competitors? The reality is over the next five years, your next biggest competitor could come from a VC backed sector completely opposite or adjacent to yours.

00:08:24:18 - 00:09:06:20
Terence Mauri
Walmart are moving into cloud services. Perplexity is attacking the $300 billion Google advertising industry. Tesla's moving into insurance. Amazon's moving into everything, including the funeral care industry. So competitive lines are being redrawn. Change is not horizontal and universal. And as Jensen Huang says Nvidia, we are moving towards transformation at the speed of Moore's Law, which means high speed, high velocity, light speed change that creates a whole set of new risks and challenges, but also upsides that I want leaders to be able to harness and leverage.

00:09:06:22 - 00:09:28:14
Kevin Eikenberry
Yeah. So that's the obvious next question, right. Like you're saying all that and some some people may be getting excited about some of that, but a lot of people are saying Holy smokes. What do we do with all that? That's like, I'm just trying to figure out how to run our business today. And now you're laying all this stuff on top of us, some of which we know, some of which we don't, some of which we've not connected the dots on.

00:09:28:19 - 00:09:48:14
Kevin Eikenberry
So really, there's an upside. So I don't want us to necessarily talk about an upside of an individual. One of these examples, as much as the mindset of thinking about knowing that finding the upside. So talk about that a little bit.

00:09:48:16 - 00:10:22:14
Terence Mauri
Today's challenges. So you can imagine we have shocks upon shocks sectors colliding with sectors. We have all sorts of volatility. I mentioned the you know, geopolitical risk supercycle alongside a technology supercycle as well. So compounding, catalyzing creating risk and opportunity. And the reality is today's challenges and tomorrow's challenges, whether that's business leadership, sustainability challenges, they can't be solved with yesterday's logic and yesterday's mindsets.

00:10:22:16 - 00:11:05:05
Terence Mauri
And so there are some major mindset evolutions that we should be thinking about to harness volatility, disruption, whatever that looks like in the 21st century, a post AI world. So, for example, moving from wait and see to learn and explore, moving from fixed to iterative, moving from, spreadsheets, soul sucking spreadsheets to self-service analytics. Moving from cultures of conformity that reject ideas that challenge a status quo to cultures of curiosity, that embrace ideas that challenge the status quo.

00:11:05:07 - 00:11:30:19
Terence Mauri
So these are some examples of the mindset shifts. We need to move from bureaucratic mindsets to intelligent mindsets. I call this ROI, which is a new post AI human metric, not just written on investment, but imagine a cognitively enable culture, return on intelligence, return on ideas, or return on insight. And so this is what excites me right now.

00:11:30:20 - 00:11:50:17
Terence Mauri
Let's not waste one of the biggest reframing moments of our lifetime. And a key and a key reflection is today is no longer just about technology and trends, although that's sucking all the oxygen in most rooms today and tomorrow is also about mindset shifts, choices and voices.

00:11:50:19 - 00:12:03:02
Kevin Eikenberry
So as a leader, how do we help? How do we understand those mindset shifts for ourselves and how do we help create that with our teams?

00:12:03:04 - 00:12:31:01
Terence Mauri
A really great starting point, because as you said, you know, we're drowning in information with drowning in data. We're drowning in, geopolitical risk, meta anxiety. So meta anxiety means anxiety about anxiety. We have anticipatory anxiety about our job security. We also worry about automation, you know, will automation, will a robot or will I take my job?

00:12:31:03 - 00:13:01:02
Terence Mauri
So we're drowning in all sorts of anxieties. And that really is an innovation killer. It's, reduces our ability to think strategically as well. And our primal instincts kick in, fight or flight. So really important question for folks to think about today. It sounds counterintuitive, is asking yourself what's not going to change because we have change fatigue, meetings, fatigue, even collaboration fatigue by asking yourself what's not going to change?

00:13:01:04 - 00:13:23:21
Terence Mauri
You can also form strategies and resource allocation around that. You know what's not going to change. Truth and trust and transparency should not be changing. The importance of the values of values should not be changing. The importance of value creation and learning at the speed of your customer should not be changing. So that's a really important question.

00:13:23:21 - 00:13:50:23
Terence Mauri
And when I asked that question in my conference at my conferences, Leadership Offsite, you feel this kind of release of pressure because everybody's, you know, really suffering from change fatigue and change overload. When you ask that question, counterintuitive question, well, what's not going to change? It releases, you know, energy and optimism about the future. So that's that's one question.

00:13:51:02 - 00:14:17:07
Terence Mauri
And then the second question is, well, you know, let's decide what's not going to change, but let's have an eye on what's emerging, what's enduring and what's eroding, because that is another great catalytic question. Question that doesn't just make us feel good but makes us think hard, which is, you know, what's emerging in my work or in my organization or in my industry, what's enduring, what's not going to change and what's eroding?

00:14:17:12 - 00:14:25:05
Terence Mauri
What are some of the mindsets or assumptions or ways of thinking that have gone off, like yogurt in the fridge?

00:14:25:07 - 00:14:44:18
Kevin Eikenberry
You know, your your point about what's not going to change is so really important. And and so often the anxiety level grows once we when we think there's change. So like we can just take the I thing which obviously it's huge. But people immediately then take that to Will everything is going to change is cataclysmic, everything's going to change.

00:14:44:21 - 00:15:10:06
Kevin Eikenberry
And then we feel no sense, no sense of stability under our feet. And your point, I think, is a really critical one cycle logically, is for people to say, okay, not everything's changing. You know, the book that I mentioned up at the top of the the second edition of our book, A long Distance leader, when we were release it, the first time, one of the rules for remarkable remote leadership is think leadership first, location second.

00:15:10:08 - 00:15:27:03
Kevin Eikenberry
A lot about leadership isn't changing, even though the set, the change is really, really important. And it's the same with AI and the other kinds of disruptions that you and I are talking about here. Since we're still I mean, I want to get to the framework that I introduced in the book to help us a little bit.

00:15:27:03 - 00:16:08:04
Kevin Eikenberry
But before we get there, because we have a, an AI expert with us, I want to ask you another question that you talk about in the book that I think is critical, which is how do we how do we deal with deciding if something is hype or here to stay? Right? Like, we've all seen the things that come and then seem to go, and so if we're a leader trying to look into the future and figure out where do we invest our time and our energy and our focus, how do we decide the stuff that is transient versus the stuff that we believe is really going to be around?

00:16:08:04 - 00:16:17:23
Kevin Eikenberry
It's going to truly impact our business for more than just the next quarter in the media. How do we how do we sort that out? What are some advice you have for that?

00:16:18:01 - 00:16:37:00
Terence Mauri
It's a it's such, a mission critical question. And I think when volatility is high and uncertainty is high, when today's the slowest it'll ever be in a lifetime, when AI is the slowest that will ever be in its lifetime. Actually, we should adopt this iterative mindset. So what I mean by that is taking some of simple steps.

00:16:37:02 - 00:17:01:00
Terence Mauri
Number one, you know, assess your current levels of future readiness. And that could be, you know, through internal or external feedback, conversations with your customers and your teams. So get a sense of your current level of future readiness, maturity. Is it exceeding expectations or just meeting, or is that actually falling behind because you can form a strategy from that starting point.

00:17:01:00 - 00:17:25:20
Terence Mauri
So number one, assess future readiness right now. Get a sense and a benchmark of where that is. Number two, align on a shared point of the future. So for example, think about some of the big megatrends that are here to stay. Secular structural. They're not going away I would suggest 2 or 3 big ones. Number one, decarbonization, electrification, the whole sustainability agenda.

00:17:25:22 - 00:17:48:16
Terence Mauri
Number two. Yeah, I and automation, and then finally, number three would be, talent scarcity. But that's not going away. In fact, that's getting worse. And so these are 2 or 3 big, disruptors on the horizon that are happening now. And then the next set of questions would be, well, okay, how can we start turning these disruptors into tailwinds?

00:17:48:21 - 00:18:11:05
Terence Mauri
Now? Tailwind could be, sort of laser like focus. It could be a new product, a new service, a new platform, a new profit pool. And so it's kind of leaping forward to a future back strategy, so leading from the future and then pulling the future back to the present. And then in a very it's a really iterative way, experimental way.

00:18:11:10 - 00:18:35:21
Terence Mauri
Placing some bets, thinking like a VC, really a venture capitalist mindset, have a portfolio of different, risks and bets and investing in those in a, in a deliberate and intentional way. And that's how we start to create resiliency. That's how we create agility, and that's how we win the future and avoid the tragedy of the horizon.

00:18:35:23 - 00:19:03:04
Terence Mauri
The tragedy of the horizon is a big deal. I met Mark Carney. I shared the stage with him at a Deloitte conference in Amsterdam, and he spoke about the tragedy of the horizon. And what it means in simple terms is that you can't prioritize future readiness. You can't prioritize long term thinking with short term horizons. William Gibson said it while he said the future is already here, it's not just it's just not evenly distributed.

00:19:03:10 - 00:19:25:02
Terence Mauri
And you have to pull the future to the present and start building it through this intentional, iterative approach. So these would be some mindset shifts, some simple strategies to get started, to start thinking like a venture capitalist, to start thinking like a futurist AI, to start thinking like a leader.

00:19:25:04 - 00:19:51:11
Kevin Eikenberry
So the the overall framework of the book, and we were talking with Terrance Mallory, the author of The Upside of Disruption. The overall structure of the book is around your Dare framework. So it probably makes sense for us to spend a little time there. You, Because I already know it. I've heard you hinting at it as we've already been speaking, but let's make it a little more overt, a little clearer for folks.

00:19:51:13 - 00:20:02:12
Kevin Eikenberry
You say there are four pieces to the framework that we need to be considering to, to create upside from disruption. So walk us through the A. Are there.

00:20:02:14 - 00:20:27:14
Terence Mauri
Thank you Kevin. Well, first of all, you know, in terms of the context of, you know, one of my calls to action, calls to mobilization for leaders, enterprise leaders, nonprofit leaders all around the world is not taking a risk is a risk when volatility is high and when speed and change and scale are being supercharged and accelerated by these new competitive forces.

00:20:27:19 - 00:20:57:00
Terence Mauri
Blurring of industry lines, economic and geopolitical uncertainty, the half life of decisions. The half life of competitive advantage is now less than 12 months. And so the the antidote, the response to that is the death framework. And what it means in simple terms is really for mindset shifts to thrive in a post AI world, to turn volatility into that platform for strategic courage or renewal.

00:20:57:00 - 00:21:21:22
Terence Mauri
We even re-imagination the D stands for data. And what that means is leading with AI. What is your point of view? And I and when I say leading with AI, I mean have a point of view on your customer facing AI. Now, what are you doing to leverage AI to personalize and create zero friction, zero distance relationships with your customers?

00:21:22:02 - 00:21:56:11
Terence Mauri
For example, at the NBA, National Basketball Association that create they're using AI to really create these very personalized show rails for every single NBA fan. We've also seen T-Mobile partner up with OpenAI to create the first intentional AI decision making platform that will use AI to proactively, solve customer pain points that go beyond that and completely reimagine the customer service industry.

00:21:56:16 - 00:22:16:19
Terence Mauri
So leading with AI means have a point of view, have a strategy for customer facing AI, and also have a strategy for operational facing AI optimized, efficient, faster, better automated, augmented. That's what the day of the dead framework stands for. Leading with AI.

00:22:16:20 - 00:22:23:06
Kevin Eikenberry
And I could say, yeah, go ahead. I've got them on here. I'm ready to go. Just this way for us. And then.

00:22:23:09 - 00:22:55:00
Terence Mauri
So that's the part one data lead with AI. Second one is agility. And what agility means is, you know, good leaders learn, but the best leaders unlearn. And we're drowning in data, bureaucracy, levels of bureaucracy, costing the global economy of a $17 trillion a year. On average. Individuals are working 2100 hours a year, of which a third, around $700, is wasted on excess bureaucracy.

00:22:55:02 - 00:23:18:05
Terence Mauri
The average enterprise with more than a thousand people has over 600 different apps. I was spending 1 in 3 meetings, which we regard as a complete waste of time. We have best practices that have become broken practices, but we keep we keep doing them. And so agility is about having this elimination mindset, a reductionist spirit to say, what do we need to let go of?

00:23:18:07 - 00:23:50:11
Terence Mauri
We got a brain bias against subtraction. We're very good at adding complexity to complexity and that slows us down. It becomes a tax on speed and agility and innovation. So number two, agility is all about elimination and remembering that unlearning, eliminating old ways of thinking, old ways of working is one of the finest forms of optimization. But it also allows you it gives you more energy, more bandwidth to creating the future rather than just protecting the past.

00:23:50:13 - 00:24:27:23
Kevin Eikenberry
I love that. And we're going to get to the other two parts of there in a second. For those of you taking notes at home. But before we do that, I just want to make an observation. And, Terence, you can comment on this if you want, but, my observation is in in doing 460, some of these episodes and, and having the chance to work with, authors and thought leaders in other format formats as well, is that as, as if I do a good job of my role in this conversation, which is limited, albeit, if I do a good job in my role here, then what is happening in

00:24:27:23 - 00:24:51:09
Kevin Eikenberry
these conversations? Everybody is you're getting a level of depth that you won't find in the book, which you'll find in the book is, is is greater breadth than we can certainly cover in our conversation time. But what I really appreciate you're doing is going into into a greater depth and helping people see even what we might not exactly see, when we read the book.

00:24:51:09 - 00:25:17:21
Kevin Eikenberry
And that is no disrespect to the book, but it's it's an observation to me that those of you that are already listening to podcasts are finding that having the chance to to to hear it as well as read it, but to hear it in a different depth and a different perspective is a great value. And and the reason I share all this is that so much of what you're talking today about parents is shifting our perspective.

00:25:17:21 - 00:25:27:06
Kevin Eikenberry
You used the word mindset, but shifting our perspective about how we look at all of this. So you're nodding any comment you want to make about that before we finish the the

00:25:27:08 - 00:25:56:04
Terence Mauri
I mean like so strongly with me, you know, we're moving from the industrial age thinking to the age of intelligence, the intelligence age. And that means we need to do some mindset shifts as well. So for example, the very practical way moving from preserve of the status quo to challenges of the status quo, moving from checking to coaching, moving from transactional thinking or transactional work to transformational thinking and transformational, outcomes.

00:25:56:07 - 00:26:20:02
Terence Mauri
So these are the transitions. And, you know, the future is not silo thinking. You know, breadth is a new depth. It's about polymath. It's about cross-pollination. It's about collective impact. Silos can blind us to fresh perspectives. Silos combined does the fresh perspectives. Yes. We need to be deep, but we also need to be wide eyed and have the breadth as well.

00:26:20:04 - 00:26:43:11
Terence Mauri
And so this kind of stretch breadth and depth and this idea of new thinking and growth happens at the intersections and edges of boundaries colliding is a really exciting place to be. Exactly. Because it reminds me of this idea that beyond is where we begin. Don't limit our challenges, but challenge our limits. And this is a great I.

00:26:43:11 - 00:26:56:16
Terence Mauri
This is the age of this is not the age of disruption. By the way, Kevin, this is the age of possibility. This is the age of wonder. And the only constraint right now is our own imagination.

00:26:56:18 - 00:27:10:11
Kevin Eikenberry
I love that. So, that bumps up against the are in in dare which is risk. So tell us what you mean. In the context of the Dare framework of risk.

00:27:10:13 - 00:27:44:23
Terence Mauri
Risk is the third mindset shift in the framework of the upside of disruption. And, you know, in a couple of words, it means risk. It means not taking a risk is a risk. And everything relates to this idea that are we leaders of courage or are we leaders of conformity, leaders of courage create cultures that embrace new thinking or ways of thinking that challenge orthodoxy or challenge the always done ways the source code for future readiness, a source code for humility over hubris.

00:27:45:01 - 00:28:08:12
Terence Mauri
The opposite is true as well. Leaders of conformity or leaders of comfort protect ideas that challenge the status quo. In fact, they reject them. And it's a shortcut to stagnation, a shortcut to atrophy, a shortcut to inertia, risk and reward travel in the same elevator. And so, mindset shift number three is this idea of what is our risk appetite.

00:28:08:12 - 00:28:31:13
Terence Mauri
Are we learning at the speed of the market, the speed of the customer? Are we iterating rather than having these sort of fixed mindsets? I've just protecting the status quo. Is that easy to do? No it isn't. We have to have this ambidextrous approach, this idea of performing I'm managing for today's reality while transfer of transforming or reimagining the tomorrows.

00:28:31:19 - 00:28:42:10
Terence Mauri
But that kind of inherent paradox of leading for today while transforming for tomorrow, is the new leadership reality.

00:28:42:11 - 00:29:02:15
Kevin Eikenberry
So the fourth of the mindset shifts in the dare framework, which starts with E is is maybe a bit of a word that and we're starting to get run out of time. I want to make sure we talk about though, because I don't want to leave people without clear, without closure. It's the one of the four that the word itself is maybe most surprising or key thing about.

00:29:02:15 - 00:29:10:04
Kevin Eikenberry
For word we think about the speed. And yet your E word is evolution. What do you mean? Here?

00:29:10:05 - 00:29:35:13
Terence Mauri
Yes. I got invited to speak at a big industrial company in Toronto last year, and the theme of their conference was Embracing Evolution. And it comes back to this idea, and I love the work of Esther Parul, the psychotherapist, and she says, you know, we have to avoid artifice, social idiocy, ie artificial idiocy. We have to avoid artificial interaction, she said.

00:29:35:13 - 00:29:57:23
Terence Mauri
If we change too fast and too soon, everything changes at the same time, we become brittle and we become the fear factor goes up. If we don't change at all, we stagnate. We atrophy by embracing evolution takes inspiration from nature. Changing of the seasons. For example. There's a natural intelligence to nature and we forget that at our peril.

00:29:58:00 - 00:30:21:21
Terence Mauri
Our own circadian rhythms, for example. So I wanted to make sure that when people read my book The Upside of Disruption, it wasn't just this idea that everything is changing, but also asking yourself, what's not changing? And taking this kind of inspiration of embracing evolution in Japan, they have this word called hanker. And hanker means renew fuel. It means embracing evolution.

00:30:21:21 - 00:30:48:05
Terence Mauri
It's kind of like, you know, water. So oil to water or a caterpillar to a butterfly or oil to to, oil to water. And it's the idea of continuous embracing evolution. So what's emerging? What's evolving, what's eroding, what's enduring. And by doing that you sustain vitality like nature. Nature is resilient if you think about it, adaptable.

00:30:48:07 - 00:31:15:09
Terence Mauri
It's the same with leadership. We can make leadership more agile and adaptable, really creating longer term vitality by embracing evolution. And that starts with trust. It starts with truth. It starts with transparency. We need that more than ever in this age of truth, decay and trust, decay with cybercrime is reaching record levels $11 trillion a year by 2027.

00:31:15:11 - 00:31:45:18
Terence Mauri
Deepfake technology. We're also moving towards what's called auto sapient trust. That means, you know, historically we had local trust and institutional trust, then, dispersed trust or distributed trust. The enabler was technology. And then we're going to arrive at Auto Sapient Trust. What I mean by that is, you know, which bots are you going to trust? You know, you're going to have your own personalized bot, and you better be sure that there's high levels of ethics and trust in that partnership.

00:31:45:20 - 00:31:58:02
Terence Mauri
So evolution, I think, is a really great way to, you know, close this, dare model data agility, risk and evolution.

00:31:58:04 - 00:32:21:09
Kevin Eikenberry
Awesome. So before we go, those of you that are listening to this later don't know this, but those of you that are watching, can see that behind here. And there are all manner of books. And so it leads to the question that I ask every guest that I have, what are you reading these days? And I already know the because you showed me before, and they're not behind you.

00:32:21:11 - 00:32:27:01
Kevin Eikenberry
They're beside you. But what's something you're reading these days? Turns.

00:32:27:02 - 00:32:59:07
Terence Mauri
Leaders are readers. That's something I want our viewers to take away to today. Leaders are readers. And actually the science. So that I was reading fiction, especially fiction, is really great at, strengthening, sharpening, activating empathy, the ability to take different perspectives, but also imagination. We need that more than ever in a world where a lot of what we've been doing will be automated or augmented, it will be the curiosity of the imagination that differentiates us from the machines.

00:32:59:09 - 00:33:25:16
Terence Mauri
Two books that I'm loving right now. One is, Paul Auster, great book called The Brooklyn Follies. And in a few sentences, it really is a book about how, as humans, we become blind to our own blindness, how as humans, often we give up on our dreams to fast and as a humans y purpose, having a strong life purpose is, is really a Northstar.

00:33:25:17 - 00:33:47:20
Terence Mauri
It gives you resiliency, helps you to turn adversity into action. And in a world where we might live to 100 years of age because of the rapid advances in medical science, this ability to reinvent or renew ourselves, to embrace perpetual beta, perpetual evolution is really important. So that's a great a great book, a really stretches the imagination as well.

00:33:47:22 - 00:34:15:03
Terence Mauri
And then a more business focused book is slow productivity by one of my favorite researchers is Cal Newport. And again, this sort of counterintuitive approach, which is right now the worst strategy you can take at work is to try and go faster and faster. And that's what we do as leaders, as managers, as human beings. We're trying to cram in more and more into eight hours, 480 minutes, and that's going to break.

00:34:15:04 - 00:34:42:04
Terence Mauri
It's going to make us brittle. And that's coming out in the research. You know, 66% of managers, according to the latest Microsoft Global survey, said they don't have enough energy in the day to do their day job. So slow productivity is really about doing less. Focusing on quality obsessively, having a no strategy and protecting your time, not just giving it away or trying to go as fast as I.

00:34:42:06 - 00:34:49:11
Terence Mauri
So two great books that make you think differently and rethink and unlearn as well.

00:34:49:12 - 00:35:10:14
Kevin Eikenberry
The Brooklyn Follies and Slow Productivity along with The Upside of Disruption will all be in the show notes for you to take a look at and find, and make it easier for you to get a copy of any of those, tiers. Where else do you want to point people? Where else can they find you? Do you want to make them aware of right now?

00:35:10:16 - 00:35:34:06
Terence Mauri
Kevin, I've loved our conversation today and this opportunity to, you know, have this wonderful human to human, interact. And I can confirm to our viewers that we are not AI. We are humans. And so there's a real magic to that. So thank you for that serendipity and surprise. I've loved the conversation. I think number one is the LinkedIn community.

00:35:34:06 - 00:36:06:08
Terence Mauri
It's such an amazing community of, courageous thinkers and doers. So connect with me on LinkedIn. Connect with me on my website, Terrence mallory.com, and even my own podcast show has a future where I've interviewed some great thinkers over the last few years, including Professor Amy Edmondson, Linda Gratton, and many others. So these would be 2 or 3 platforms to to stay part of this sort of, you know, collective community of ideas and fresh thinking.

00:36:06:10 - 00:36:30:08
Kevin Eikenberry
All of that will be in the show notes as well. But for those of you listening, Terence maori.com TRT and c e m a you are icon. So here's before we go, I want to ask a question that I ask everybody every single episode. And it's it's the question of application. The question for all of you listening is now what what are you going to do with what you learned there?

00:36:30:10 - 00:36:56:11
Kevin Eikenberry
There was plenty of things for you to hear and absorb and process from Terence, but and hopefully you've even been a little bit entertained by our conversation. But ultimately, what will move the needle for you? What will change the future for you and your team, is the action that you take from the things that you heard. So, if you want a return on intelligence, you have to take action.

00:36:56:14 - 00:37:12:12
Kevin Eikenberry
So it's my hope that you will find those things for you. I've got a whole page of notes. I hope you do too. But more than the notes, I hope that you leave with a set of actions or a single thing that you will do as a result of the conversation. If you do that, this will be far more valuable for you.

00:37:12:12 - 00:37:20:07
Kevin Eikenberry
Terence, thanks so much for being here. It's a pleasure to have you here. I've been looking forward to it and now we've had that chance. And thanks very much.

00:37:20:09 - 00:37:24:16
Terence Mauri
Thanks, Kevin, and thanks everyone, and look forward to the next conversation.

00:37:24:18 - 00:37:44:04
Kevin Eikenberry
So everybody, that next conversation here, we'll be with our guest next week. So make sure that you're subscribed. Wherever you've seen this. Make sure that you're telling someone else what insights you got and where they can get those insights for themselves. And just make sure you're back next week for another episode of the Remarkable Leadership Podcast. Thanks, everybody.